*Introduction Wars*PLEASE HELP!!

Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:01 am

Help! Please.. I'm currently introducing my 6 month old buck Scamps to Warrior (who is about 9 weeks..). The first time they met, I thought WOW! they're gonna get on fine, they just jumped onto me, climved into my hood together and that was it.. The next time, there was a bit of boxing, and the times since then, a few scuffles. Tonight there were wrestling matches galore.. Then scamps seemed to submit himself, and dove under Warrior, and let warrior groom him.. they then went their separate ways for a while.. then met back on the middle of the sofa.. Again, a few more boxes etc, Scamps came and sat under my legs.. Warrior ran back and forth, trying to initiate, but running back every time! Then there was a fur pulling competition (talk about cat fight!) and then there was blood.. Warrior has a cut on his back. It seems like a surface scratch but I'm a bit worried. It's not bleeding much at all and I've cleaned it with salt water. Will it heal ok and will they be ok to carry on with their introductions. We had them out a while longer.. Just on our laps letting them calm down, and then put them away.. I'm now a little worried that there will be blood every time, and that it will take more blood to establish the alpha position.. On top of this, I have to introduce both of them to my babies in about 3 weeks time.. So am looking forward to that.. I have also now finally sexed all my little ones.. I relied on nipple presence as testicles haven't dropped yet. (their ears are now open, and eye slits are forming.. ooh this is exciting! it happens sooo fast!) and I have 5 girlies and 4 boys.. So that works out very nicely.
Any help would be much appreciated

Thank you.. Beee

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:51 am

Ahh hormonal boys....

I feel your pain - my 18 month old boy is a grump these days (he has some damage from a series of minor strokes, and he's become rather aggressive and rough with the others recently) and trying to introduce him to my young boy Zak was a nightmare. Rolling Eyes

I've actually given it up, and introduced him to others for at least play times, but I had been trying for 3 months to get them together with absolutely no improvement in Darwin's (my old boy) behaviour.

Blood isn't good.... although you do have to let them work it out, separating them before blood is drawn and they really fight is probably what to aim for, rather than expecting as normal blood flying. Have you tried dabbing their noses and genitals with something like vanilla extract, or giving them a bath just prior to intros? That can help as they don't smell too different and might help them to bond.

The problem is that at 6 months, Scamps is feeling the urge to prove his manhood and is a ball of testosterone - it's the time where hormonal aggression seems to become an issue in many cases. So it might be that, given a few weeks, Scamps will settle down and be more tolerant of the youngsters. Or it might be that this is an indication that he might need some assistance with his excess testosterone, in the form of a snippage. But give it a bit more time for intros - how long ago did you first introduce them? Does either of them do the huffing, fur puffing, hissing, hopping, sidling, belly/face rubbing type actions?

Introducing the baby boys to Warrior should be fine - introducing them to Scamp really depends what kind of mood he's in by that point.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:04 am

I've just had a thought...I don't really know you so if you've mentioned this somewhere else, so if you have, sorry...but is Warrior a naked or double rex??...I just thought of that because I know that they can get scratched and whatnot a lot easier than a *normal* rat cause they don't have any (or only have very little) fur to protect them. Just a thought. Anyways. I would say put some neosporin on it and try Little Willows suggestions after it heals up. I'd also suggest having some working gloves or something along those lines just in case you need to break up a fight. Sometimes when ratties are going at it they can't really tell the difference between the rat they're mad at and the loving parent. Good luck with your little ones and crossed fingers for good intros

Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:17 am

I think it's probably a safe bet that Warrior isn't nekked or double rex (though perhaps the latter) - we very very rarely have nekked rats in the UK. The NFRS bans showing of them and discourages breeding because of the associated health problems with nekkeds. And because nekkid rats aren't particularly sought after by pet owners, either, double rexes also aren't very common. Most UK rex breeders tend to stick to Rex x Standard breedings, I guess.

I guessed from the description that the wound came from Scamps dragging Warrior around with his teeth.... is that right?

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:59 am

actually no.. he;s a black hooded. and it was i presume, a scratch (scamps has CLAWS i'm trying to cut them but he;s a squirmer..)........ i'm hoping he'll settle. he;s a wild boy anyway really. sorry this is a brief answer. i keep running out of watching the frightners to check the site.. ben;s going mad at me!!! :S

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:26 am

Right.. The Frightners is over, and I am free!! Scamps was 5 months old when I got him, and had lived in a pet shop forever. He wasn;t jumpy or nasty.. but just not hugely handled. Luckily the shop I got him from is an independent shop, and very good with their animals. But yes. He is very hormonal.. He shares a loft space with 3 women (not in the cage tho.) and as he's not 100% on being handled in his cage, I let him walk out.. if I'm not quick enough, he will walk up the cage and try to get to Hero if at all possible. I'm *hoping* that as he is improving so much with his human relationships, his ratty relationships will also improve. He was the last rat in his cage when I got him. I class him as a rescue rat as he was 5 months when I got him, and had never been owned (therefore not hugely socialised). What I don't understand is that he and Warrior have a really friendly relationship when they choose.. They were curled up together this evening until the last boxing/ fight... It's almost as if they fight because one of them HAS to be alpha.. I think if it was up to them, they'd both be alpha/beta and average out.. but it's as if there's something saying "ONE OF YOU HAS TO BE LEADER" and they're obeying.. Weird blokey rats.. Weird males altogether really!! wink

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:31 am

Oh, and scamps puffs up.. but then he;s quite a puffy rat really anyway.. what i don't understand is that he doesn;t seem to care. he's not an aggressive rat at all. even with warrior.. i first introduced them about 10 days ago.. it isn't every night, but they spend time in each others' cages.. and i put lemon essential oil on them before they "meet"..

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:35 am

Dennika, thanks for your tips.. I was a bit scared earlier when the teeth were being bared, but I have learned from the past that sometimes wearing gloves makes you smell like aforeign object.. and they bite you all the same. So I just sit still and squeak if they get too excited! But yes, after blood was drawn this eve, I will be keeping a spray bottle of water and some gloves handy!!

|b

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green

Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:54 am

I'd have to say that he sounds like a candidate for neutering if he doesn't calm down soon.... saying that though, it sounds like he's obviously not hating Warrior, but he's still not entirely happy.... Does he get huffy with the other rats (or at least in their general direction)?

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:43 pm

No.. not really. He goes a bit mental if he gets a whiff.. tries to run in a non general direction.. He seems drunk when he's doing it! He's not at all territorial.. he's a bit cheeky, and eats all of Warrior's stashed food when he goes in to his cage, but doesn't care that Warrior is in his. When's the best time to introduce him to the babies.. (they're two weeks now..) They won't be in his cage until they're at least 12 - 14 weeks due to the size of the gaps in between bars. But should I introduce them from a young age, when he's in a quiet mood; and let him get used to them? I obviously don't want him to damage them at all.. :s

_________________
~Bee~
Scamps
Warrior
Hero
Maggie n Flo
The Bunch of Tiny Pinkies

RIP Poncho.. The best second hand rat there ever was Mr. Green