LITTER/BEDDING/FLOORING/BUMBLEFOOT

Fri May 30, 2003 2:33 pm

Hello everyone,

I'm still in the midst of getting my cage ready for my first ever rats (rescue boys) but I'm getting very mixed messages about the covering of wire levels.

I took the bottom bit out of my terenziani michaelangelo so that bit is solid. But what to do with the other levels? The two main viewpoints seem to be either

A: Even though wire floors probably don't cause bumblefoot, covering the wire floors with self adhesive lino or something similar makes them way easier to clean, apparently wire shelves can get nastily dirty?

OR

B: Making wire floors solid is not advisable as puddles of urine/poos may form instead of simply dropping through the wire

So what to do? I don't think that plastic needlepoint stuff with the holes in is available in the UK (and I looked in the Oxford St John Lewis's huge haberdashery dept)

All opinions welcome please!

Fri May 30, 2003 3:28 pm

It is becoming more accepted that wire shelves aren't causing bumblefoot, you're right. I think that to cover or not is really your choice. Personally, I just switched to cages with solid floors because, as someone else pointed out to me, urine stalactites are very difficult to clean LOL. If you want to cover the shelves, I know some people keep rags or fleece on each level, and wash them every few days to take care of the pooling issues. Personally, I spot clean my solid shelves as necessary and call it a day. Hope this helped you.

Oh, and good for you for getting rescue rats as first pets! What a wonderful way to enter the world of rat ownership!

rq

_________________

Fri May 30, 2003 4:16 pm

All of our rats have had solid base pans, and wire shelves, and we've never had problems with bumblefoot.

I did put two pairs of boys in a seperate cage when they were neutered (in pairs) as a recovery cage. This one had a solid ramp and balconey, and it was a bit difficult to clean.

The balconey had a large semi-circular groove running 'round the edge, between 5 and 100 mm in diameter, and stuff would get in the groove, dry out, and stick. Difficult to clean, but not impossible.

I prefer wire balconeys, myself.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Fri May 30, 2003 4:43 pm

Hi Laura

I have the michaelangelo too, and have taken out the bottom wire level. The base has a layer of newspaper in it, covered with old T-shirts. As far as covering the rest goes, I cover the bits of the cage where they spend the most time.

On the middle level, I have two old t-shirts folded in half - one length wise that goes along the long bit of the 'L' and one folded width-wise that goes on the short bit of the 'L' (I hope that makes sense!). They cover pretty much all the surface.

On the small floor above that, I have their nesting box, with blankets (old dusters or pieces of fleece) in. I don't cover the wire on that top floor, since they always pee loads in the corner there and the cloths get wet too quickly, so I've placed a litterbox underneath to catch that! I haven't covered the ramps either.

It's very easy to change the cloths and litter every 2-3 days, and wipe down the exposed bits of wire. I don't find that the wire gets very dirty if I keep on top of it. I scrub the cage out every week to 10 days.

I hang a hammock off the top lid (tea towel folded in half and pinned to the lid with nappy pins) which they love! They have to climb out of it when I open the cage, but it's really the only place I could easily hang a decent sized hammock.

I've made small corner hammocks for them, by cutting tea towels in half, and folding them into triangles. They fix on with safety pins too (no sewing required!).

_________________
P, Charlie and Snoopy

Fri May 30, 2003 4:58 pm

I did cover the wire levels of my cage for about three months, and then I gave up. It was a pain to clean and the girlies kept chewing on the plastic carpet runner I was using. Grrr. I have a Martins 690 so there are two balconies (one is the "second level" from the floor, one is the third) and a full middle floor. I put the case from a twelve pack of soda on the middle level and through lots of tissues, paper towels and newspaper (no color ink, only soy black) in there and they get to make nests in the box and where-ever they want. It works out great. Currently they have two tissues on the top balcony for "sunning" and everything else is in the box. Mr. Green

I scrub once a week and really don't have too many problems.

Fri May 30, 2003 8:03 pm

I used to use a combination of floorings: wire, covered, bedding in the bottom of course, for two reasons: rats need a variety of surfaces to walk (and chew) on, and I used various coverings (usually some sort of flexible plastic) on the areas where they tended to pee the most.

Those clear inserts to put in the bottom of your dish sink work good for certain areas, and clear carpet runner for others.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Tue Dec 02, 2003 10:31 pm

I know another question from the new rat owner and soon to be rats yea 8 more days! But before i get new baby i would like to ask all of yall out there what do yall put on the bars of the cage like on the 2nd 3rd levels? The wire spacing is about 1 square inch (sorry i have no clue about the transfiguration to the other measurement scale). I think with the new baby they would like to be able to use the other space more efficently.
Thanks Yogie Dance

Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:57 am

One of our ratties pulled up pieces of everything we tried to use, so now we just make sure there are always a couple of rags (shirts outgrown by our daughters) on the top level so they're not *constantly* walking on wire. I really fretted about the walking-on-wire-floors thing before our ratties came home (almost a year ago!), and some kind soul on this forum let me know that bumble foot seems to have a hereditary link. That meant that I didn't have to stress about it too much, not unless one of the ratties turned out to be susceptible. Both seem fine so far with the cloths, which provide enough coverage so that they don't spend a lot of their time walking on wires. We just change the cloths every evening so they stay clean.

It's so *EXCITING* to be getting ratties, isn't it? I could hardly sleep the night before ours were set to come home.... Let us know how it goes and don't forget pictures! Did I mention pictures???

_________________
Sandy ~ and Liberty, Skye, and Pyro

Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:05 am

Put bedding at the bottom of the cage. The rest of the levels, the rats are ok, but if it really worries you buy some Plexiglass and put it on the wire.

_________________
Laura (aka RATLOVER47)
My boys: Pokey and Pepper

Rest in peace little Pipster. I miss you more than anything.

Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:27 am

I have put lino on my shelves - I just thought it would be more comfortable that way, and I found the open wire really hard to get clean. BUT if you do cover the shelves, be really vigilant over puddles of pee. I cut the lino in my cage with bits to spare so there is a lip running round the edge. That way, I can cover the area with litter and remove the wet stuff several times a day like I do on the bottom of the cage.

_________________
Claire
Foggy, Beeker & Eski

Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:43 am

Some people also use plastic needlepoint canvas which is easy to clean and you can cut it to size. I prefer the wire floors myself because I don't like the pee to puddle and sit where they can walk through it. But needlepoint canvas will help with that since there are holes in it. Lino also works well and you can get it in cool colors and designs.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Mar 25, 2004 2:56 am

I cover most of the shelves with 2 layers of felt, held in place by safety pins(if i didn`t they would pull it all down!) I flip them over every few days and then when the other side gets dirty i wash them and put them back in again. I am not really concerned about bumblefoot, but it gives the rats a nice soft place to rest.

Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:37 am

I've been using just plastic canvas that I've stitched in place, but it needs to be scrubbed every other week or so and it's such a pain getting the big cage into the bathtub. I'd love to have something that I could pull out and wash (I'm thinking maybe towels or something), but I'd rather they didn't block out the light 'cause the bottom level of the big cage gets pretty dark anyway. Anyone have any solutions?
Sarah

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:10 am

I use newspaper and change it every day. Usually I just wipe the bars down with a baby wipe (they're seldomely dirty). If you stay on top of it (change the paper every day to every other day) it is very nice. Cheap, looks nice, and stays nice and neat. I fold down the edge nearest the cage walls to keep it in place:

Personally, I've tried towels, that stitching plastic stuff... not sure what it's called... but this is by far my favorite

_________________

In memory of Riley, the bestest, most squishiest ratty anyone could ever hope for

Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:25 am

What type of Bedding/Litter does everyone use? I am currently using Care Fresh, but wonder if there's better. Has anyone used this product?

Green Pet Natural Corn Cobs Bird & Small Animal Litter/Bedding
Description
All-natural, 100% organic corn cob bedding absorbs from the bottom up, meaning the surface of the bedding that touches your pet remains dry. Most other bedding absorbs from the top down, meaning the surface your pet touches stays wet.
Virtually dust-free.

Earth-friendly, biodegradable bedding.

Technical Information
Natural Corn Cobs Litter/Bedding can be used for caged birds and small animals including rabbits, hamsters, mice, rats, ferrets, guinea pigs, gerbils, hedgehogs, chinchillas, and similar small animals.

Kath[/img]

_________________
Kat

Wed Mar 31, 2004 5:03 am

I used corn cob bedding once, and hated it. It really didn't absorb anything, and didn't control the smell at all. I don't know, maybe I just used a bad brand.
Right now I use aspen. The only thing I don't like about aspen is that it gets everywhere! Whenever I go to school, friends are usually picking pieces of it off of me

_________________
~~Mallory~~
*~Paz~Mia~Nina~Medellia~Penelope~*
Angel rat

~Eleanor~ ~Sally~Maggie~

Wed Mar 31, 2004 8:13 am

I'm using "All Natural Corncobs" right now, and I think it's fantastic. It does a pretty good job of controlling odor for me. The only issue is that it doesn't really absorb much wet, so I have to scrub out the bottom tray whenever I clean (once a week for three rats).

I do end up with corncob pieces in everything I own, though.

_________________
Katy: Ratmom to Momo, Hedwig, and Suzie!

Wed Mar 31, 2004 7:00 pm

My opinion is based on mice, but the corn cob has no odor control or absorbtion. Hemp litter is a bit better, and it is nice and soft. Carefresh is about the same as the hemp, except it is ugly (at least the grey version). My favorite so far is Equilitter, a horse stall pellet. It is a compressed wood pellet and does a fantastic job with odor. It is also heavy enough that it doesn't get kicked out too badly. It is not particularly soft, so I provide soft material for nesting. It (or and equivilant) is pretty cheap at the farm stores, and not marked up the way the small animal litters are. And almost as good are wood stove pellets, which are compressed hardwoods. They are by far the cheapest, only $3.89 for 40 lbs at Lowes and nearly as good as the Equilitter, but you have to stock up during the cold months since they are often unavailable during summer. I also like horse and wood stove pellets because they break down quickly in the compost bin and can later be used in the garden.

Last edited by wade on Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:43 am; edited 1 time in total

Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:15 pm

I used Yesterday's News for my ratties. It is less dusty than Carefresh (by a long shot -- my rats would not stop sneezing when I had them on it) and it seems to control odor pretty well. I dump the bottom of their cage twice a week and scrub it once a week, and don't really have a huge odor problem.

_________________
Lydelia and the Critters
... and now they are five Mr. Green

Kitties: Miss Kitty, Catbot
Ratties: Eugenuis, Ralph and Elliott
RIP Oliver -- We love you and we'll miss you!!! Cry

Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:52 am

I use Cell Zorb, and I LOVE it! I have NEVER smelled my boys with this stuff, it's too heavy to throw out of the cage, but not too hard that they don't like walking on it.

I use Swheat scoop in their litterbox, which I also love.

Both are a bit pricey, with my newly built cage I use an entire bag for the bottom base. :/ But it's worth it, my upstairs has little air flow, so any stinky smells become super monstrous!

Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:48 am

EvilGummy (how in the world did you get that name?), I recently saw Cell Zorb in PetsMart and it looks just like the equilitter I mentioned. You might look in to that since it is a whole lot cheaper, esp if you have a big cage.

Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:08 am

Well, I created an anime music video a long time back, and called my studio Evil Gummy Studios...and ever since, the name just stuck.

I have yet to see equilitter...not sure we have a farm store around here? I'll look into it, since RI is so small, I should know quickly if I can find the stuff here.

Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:57 am

I used to use Carefresh, but it would even make me sneeze. I switched to Aspen, but I can't stand the smell of it.

_________________
+ Gina
Belly Kiss

Sandy, Lilo, Rio & Atreyu.

Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:53 pm

	wade wrote:
	EvilGummy (how in the world did you get that name?), I recently saw Cell Zorb in PetsMart and it looks just like the equilitter I mentioned. You might look in to that since it is a whole lot cheaper, esp if you have a big cage.

Correction: I was in Petsmart again last night and I was incorrect. The horse litter is not exactly like Cell Sorb. Same shape and weight, but wood based (brown color), not paper (gray). I was confusing Cell Sorb with another pet shop litter, which they appear to be out of at the moment. In any case, it might still be worth trying if you can find it since it sounds like they perform about the same. Sorry for any confusion.

Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:22 pm

I'm not sure what litter you are using, but with my mice, esp the males, the Equilitter horse stall pellet litter I've mentioned before is the only thing that keeps my living room smelling good for more than two days (and I've tried just about every litter.) I special order it through a place that sells horse feed. I saw a cat litter that looks like it is the same stuff, but I don't remember the brand. Wood stove pellets were the next best and are very inexpensive, 40# for$3.89 at Lowe's, and our Farm Store had them on "end of season" sale for $1.99.

Here is a photo were you can see the pellets.

[/img]

Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:25 pm

Hmm.... and their safe for rats?

My rats are litter box trained, so the levels are just lined with newspaper (like I said, changed every other day) but they use the litterbox which has carefresh in it.

I'll look into that... is it absorbant?

_________________

In memory of Riley, the bestest, most squishiest ratty anyone could ever hope for

Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:06 pm

Both pellets are safe. The horse pellets are made to be less dusty and safer than pine in a horse stall, and the wood stove pellets are simply a hardwood pellet with no additives. The "ingredients" are listed on the bag. I saw that idea on another rat board several years back, and a friend said she has seen it mention in rabbit articles as well.
And for what it is worth, the Carefresh had the least odor control with the mice.

Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:46 am

Cell-Zorb in the bottom pan, and in their two litter boxes I use Swheat Scoop, which I love. Unfortunately, they now only use the bottom pan for the bathroom, and the top level corner pan they use as a snack box..

They really like the flavor of that wheat litter I guess. wtf

I don't cover my shelves, and it is a bit of a pain to keep clean, but more so in the corners then anywhere covering would do much.

I don't mind scrubbing their shelves,I have a nice long bristle brush so it makes it easy. I normally do it once every two or three days, as well as the litter boxes, and a full change once a week of the bottom pan litter.

The only part I hate about cage cleaning, is the plastic house and perches. I need to soak those things GOOD, and the house gets filthy so quick..I never see them really use it, yet it gets so gross!

But, I think I am lucky, as my boys keep their big hamock and cloth pocket VERY clean.. Bah. Now I went off rambling. Sorry. Embarassed

Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:53 am

I use towels on the shelves only. They need to be taken out every so often and washed in the washer. I've cut them to fit the shelf, then bound the cut edges with bias tape so that they don't fray in the laundry. In every corner, I've put a grommet and I use cable ties to attach it to the floor. Occasionally they chew the towels, but that's ok, they chew just about everything anyway

For the floor, I use aspen. which tends to get everywhere, but smells nice. They also have at least 40 million hammocks that need to be washed at least once a week.

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:01 pm

So Carefresh (the gray shredded fluffy stuff) is bad for rats?

I am on a rat list and was told to buy Carefresh. I just put my girlies on it today, but will run out and buy something else if they have it. The only thing my stores around here sell are: Aspen, Cedar & Pine (EWWW they should be BANNED), and Carefresh. I CAN drive 45 min. to the PetSmart in Lake Mary to get Cell Zorb I believe. How expensive is it..how long does it last..and does it do good for the smell?

I prefer something somewhat economical, since I clean the girls' cage every other day..although I'm working on getting them litter trained. They are young and I've only had them four days.

Elizabeth

Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:16 pm

We've used Carefresh for our rats. We've switched to Yesterday's News for odor control and because it's half the price of Carefresh.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:10 am

	Sparrow wrote:
	Is there any advice you guys can give me? Any air fresheners, etc? I really don't like my room to smell like anything- good or not- so this is a really annoying problem for me. I was thinking an air purifier, but they're pretty darn expensive... ??

Nilodor!!!!!! I don't know if you know how smelly male mice can be but this is the only stuff that works! There's two different products:

Tap-A-Drop Nilodor. This you squirt a drop in the cage itself every day or so... Works really well - you can buy it through Kim's Ark Rat Rescue and benefit the rescue rats at the same time

- It's under the Cleaning & Odor section.

http://www.kimsarkrescue.org/store.html
(It's under the Cleaning & Odor section)

Or Nilodor makes a plug in type thing... it's like an air freshener but instead of masking odors it neutralizes them. You do have to buy refills but the whole thing is pretty affordable...

http://www.petedge.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=145&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=0&iSubCat=0&iSubSubCat=0&iProductID=145&AS=1

Hope that helps! I myself use Cell-Sorb Plus bedding and I find it works really well! I think paper pellet bedding in general works well but can be on the hard side... Cell-Sorb is probably one of the softer ones.

JoAnna

Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:38 am

Nope, CareFresh isn't bad for rats. Some rats don't do well on it, and some humans can't stand it (they have allergic reactions). I've always used it and have never had a problem with it, just that the last bit in the bottom of some of the bags (but not all, oddly enough) can be dusty, so I don't use the last few inches (toss it in the composter).

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:02 am

Carefresh isn't bad but it can be on the dusty side at times... White Carefresh doesn't seem to have the same dust problem. It's expensive but Harlan Teklad White Tek-Fresh is the exact same stuff except MUCH cheaper. You can buy that through Kim's Ark Rescue too and they ship it - I've used it before, it's good stuff

_________________
~~~(---)8> JoAnna <8(---)~~~

Join the North East U.S. Rat Lovers Yahoo Group! groups.yahoo.com/group/NERatLovers

Adopt a rat from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue www.kimsarkrescue.org

Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:10 pm

In my early days when i didn't know any better, my two pet shop rats were brought living on sawdust so i kept them on that with shredded paper as bedding-but as expected they eventually began suffering from respiritary problems so someone suggested megazorb to me - its a horse bedding and obsorbs really well. the breathing definatly gor better. it also worked well for my male mice and their 'strong' smell and the gerbils digging habits meant they created less dust with it. So now three years later everyone is on it. the only downful is you can only buy it in huge sacks but its much cheaper than carefresh .

Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:47 pm

I found the Equilitter online: www.equilitter.com

Is it safe since it's made from pine? Although it says it's tested for aflatoxins and mycotoxins - not sure what that means!

Megazorb says it's made from wood pulp on their web site - so I guess it's paper based? I e-mailed the company to see what kinds of wood they use... It also looks like it's mainly sold in the UK - do they sell it in the U.S.?

_________________
~~~(---)8> JoAnna <8(---)~~~

Join the North East U.S. Rat Lovers Yahoo Group! groups.yahoo.com/group/NERatLovers

Adopt a rat from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue www.kimsarkrescue.org

Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:23 pm

i believe you can only buy megazorb in the uk - its organic and dust extracted and is really soft.

_________________
Rattie girls:Ziggy,Pudding, Waffle, Chips, Amy, Prilly, Biscuit and Coffee
Rattie boy: Basil.
Gerbil: Daisy
Guinea Pigs: Poppy and Rosie.
Hamsters: Smidge and Tilly

Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:09 pm

I've always used Carefresh for my rats and haven't had any problems with it. Personally, I think it is rather ugly, and prefer the white stuff (which I can't find in this stupid town...gah!). And it does get thrown all over the floor. But, as far as odor (only had two, mind you) and the happiness of the rats, it seems to do pretty well. Have been thinking of switching to something else, though, as I am trying to acquire more rats.

~Jamie Group Hug

Tue May 04, 2004 4:23 pm

Hi Maryann

You can get Yesterday's News online from Companions Choice for £4.95 per 10lb bag (plus delivery - about £5)
http://www.companionschoice.com

Ferretworld sell something called Smart Cat Paper Pellet Litter - £17.99 + delivery for a 30 L bag
http://www.ferretworld.co.uk

Tesco online sell Bio Catolet - very similar to Yesterday's News - for £4.39 per 12L bag plus delivery
www.tesco.co.uk
It's also stocked in large Tesco, Sainsbury and Asda stores.

Lastly, I've seen Ecopet recycled cardboard litter recommended - it's small strips of cardboard, similar to the Ideal horse bedding that people rave about but is hard to get hold of. You can order it online at £17.90 for a 10kg bale, or £19.55 for a 23 kg bale including delivery:
http://www.earthlyenterprises.co.uk

Hope that helps!

_________________
P, Charlie and Snoopy

Fri May 07, 2004 6:50 pm

Ok, we know pine and cedar are out. But due to my asthma I can't even use the aspen pet bedding. (It just about killed me with previous ratties Benny & Joon and previous hamster Bobert) Right now I'm using some sort of recycled paper soft pellet small pet bedding that I found at Petco. Carefresh is too dusty (and ugly), despite what everyone says.

Any other allergy sufferers here that can't use "natural" beddings for their ratties? If so, what do you use and recommend? So far I like the stuff I'm using. It is dust free and Billy R. seems to like digging in it. But he also likes sleeping in his ghetto quaker oats container, so that doesn't give his other choices much credibility

Mon May 10, 2004 3:28 am

Carefresh Ultra (the white stuff) which is also the same as Harlan Teklad White Tekfresh is less dusty than regular Carefresh.

It seems most people who have a problem with dust switch over to strips of cloth with a small litter box. You have to clean it more often but there will be little if any dust.

_________________
~~~(---)8> JoAnna <8(---)~~~

Join the North East U.S. Rat Lovers Yahoo Group! groups.yahoo.com/group/NERatLovers

Adopt a rat from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue www.kimsarkrescue.org

Thu May 13, 2004 10:45 pm

Ok, the recycled bedding I'm using right now is in fact, dusty. It's causing me to sneeze, one of my cats is sneezing, and I can't see how it helps Billy R. any, with his illness and all. So I guess I will be trying out Yesterdays News. And it being heavier will hopefully help with the mess Billy likes to make. He loves his ferret jingle toys and I think he has a nightly soccer game, judging by the mess that I find in the morning wink

Fri May 14, 2004 7:58 am

I just started using Yesterday's News this week, and so far, I'm really happy with it. My only complaint is it's louuuuuud when they kick it around.
PS when I first put them back in once I'd cleaned and refilled their cage, each of them felt the need to carry around a piece of YN in their mouths. Soo Cute!

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Wed May 26, 2004 4:17 am

I was planning on introducing myself elsewhere first, but..hi, everyone. =) Interesting topic. I've been experimenting with bedding, etc. lately, too, since I'll be getting a fourth girlie soon.

Personally, I use Odoban to clean. I get it free from work (I work at a dog daycare), but I don't think it's too expensive, anyway. As far as I know, it's safe (I always rinse the cage, toys, etc. thoroughly afterwards), it smells nice, and it seems effective. I never have problems with smells. I dump the girls' litter box every other day or so, and clean the cage once a week. =)

Bedding. Personally, I use cloth bedding for the floor of the cage, since they're litter trained, and for all their boxes and cloth mats for the levels. I use Carefresh in the litter box. Cloth bedding isn't as bad as you might think. I just have a lot of it, change it often, and do a load of rat laundry every few weeks. Strips of flannel, cut up old towels, etc. work great if you're lucky enough to have litter trained ratties. =)

Something else I've thought about is shredded paper. Maybe if you ran across a cheap one at a garage sale or something, and checked with the local newspaper to see what kind of ink they use? It might be another low-cost option. If anybody's tried this, how did it go?

Oh, one final note. My rats -eat- corn cob bedding. They act like I've just given them a litter box full of yogies. *tsk tsk* =P I'm not sure why. Maybe I just have weird rats?

Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:28 am

Well, until further notice, I'm trying out Green Pet Products Inc. Aspen Supreme Pellets. They seem to be doing pretty well, so far, but we'll see. Only issue is that it has a strong smell, which probably isn't good for the rats, and it's 10.99 for a 20 lb bag. I probably used a good 4 inches of the bag, so it probably only is useable for 4 or maybe 5 cage changes. *sigh* Well, at least it isn't dusty. I contacted Equilitter to see if I can get some of it shipped in, special order, as nobody seems to carry it, here.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:03 am

So there is no complaints about Yesterdays News besides the noise? My sister uses it for her gineau pig and it would be so much easier and cheaper to use YN. Does everyone think its ok? Is the odors ok with it?

_________________
My Zoo
55gal Freshwater Community Fish
29gal Freshwater Community Fish
20gal 2 Leopard Geckos
10gal 1 Emporer Scorpion
10gal Terrarium
Cats...Tiger, Bunya, and Toby
Dog...Pumpkin
New Martins for rats!

Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:21 am

YN is great litter. I used to use it all the time until my local petshop stopped carrying it.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:58 am

This originally stemmed from the problem of my ratties having needle nails. I needed some way to wear their nails down, and I was scouring this forum for ideas. Looks like other people tried sandpaper but it didn't work...

So my boyfriend actually came up with this idea and it's worked great. I went to Home Depot and bought natural rock tiles... you know, the kind that you can install on your kitchen floor. They can come in big sizes that can be cut with the right equipment, or smaller sizes. They're pretty cheap and come in all sorts of colors. I put these on the shelves of my cage, and voila! Not only do they have some natural rock to wear their nails down, it also keeps them from walking on the wires. And it's incredably easy to clean... since the tiles are heavy, they don't have to be fastened to the cage. You can just pull them out and scrub them. And they dry in like 5 minutes.

Hope this helps those people with floor covering issues!

_________________
~Vicki and her morning coffee~
Latte, Arabica, Bean, and Demitasse

O..O
>o<
(db)S
^^

Rest in Peace my sweet Mocha

Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:27 am

does no-one use biocatolet? I'm surprised no-one has mentioned it. I have fourteen cages to clean every week (rats guinni's rabbets ferrets and mice) so there's no way I would use anything else as the oder control is so good and the smell it gives off is quite pleasant.

Biocatolet is quite expensive(around eight pounds for a big 25L bag) so I sprinkle it on top of a paper based cat litter, carefresh sometimes but I find the rats don't get on with it and flick it everywhere (three pounds), or bob martins recycled paper pellets(under two pounds) which is like carefresh but less powdery and sometimes I use yesterdays news)

As for the smell problem, have you tried altering their diet? mine used to really pong if they ate certain foods, for example, they only get cat food when they are just about to be cleaned out.

A ferret cage spray is also good to get rid of the smell.

My girls have a rolled up old tee shirt on their hammock which not only stops the smell (I don't have to change the hammock more than once a week) and also they tend to chew the hammock if there's no shirt...

Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:05 am

I just bought a large bag of aspen shavings ($8) and a large bag of Woody Pet pellets ($4) to try both. A slightly larger bag of CareFresh is $20 and only lasts 4 or so cage cleanings. The mice like to burrow and build far more than any of my rats ever did, and they also are champions at the long-distance litter toss.

I will probably go back to CareFresh since it's quiet, clean, odorless, absorbent, etc. But I wanted to give the other two items a try since both together are cheaper than one bag of CareFresh.

I have a feeling the pellets are going to be noisy, though, and I can just imagine what the room is going to look like after a night of tossing those! Mr. Green

BTW, Wade, the people at Agway told me they don't sell wood stove pellets as listed safe for pets cos they cannot guarantee that there is not petrol or other harmful yuck in there.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:20 am

What is the bedding called that looks like a bunch ot tiny white squares? My rescue boys arrived in it, and I really like it, but I'm not sure what it's called.

Right now I am using Carefresh. Recently, they've started vacuum packing it into perfect rectangles. It is super for storage, but a pain in the honker to use. I feel like I have to chisel chunks out of it before I can get any out, and then of course the rats try to help... Rolling Eyes

Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:05 pm

yeah my carefresh came packed like that... i found it too much effort to brwak all the bits up and it seemed quite dusty. a small pack did go quite a long way though for it's size

Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:15 am

Hey!
Whem I first got my rats, I worried the same way. But what I do, I have obviously the bedding. Then the middle floor where they spend a lot of time, which i often put old face/wash cloths in for them to move around as they please. I also like to put small boxes in there for them to hide it. The top floor has the main hammock and a small shelf for the food bowl. I don't worry about the feet anymore and I hope you don't either!
Good Luck! Crossed Fingers

Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:51 am

I was wondering what you cloth users used to keep the cloth in place! I have these ugly bright orange and blue dinner napkins that I use for the rats--I put them in their baskets for bedding. *Note-great investment. Pack of 3 plastic baskets from Walmart for 97 cents. They make great beds and look outs!** Anywho, the rats move the napkins everywhere. So I was wondering, how the heck do I keep them from doing that with t-shirts or towels?? Thanks for the pins idea.

And thanks for the linoleum idea also...I have lots of that lying around from the new floors! Didn't think of that for some reason! Confused

BUT what I wanted to REALLY ASK was, do your rats eat their food in their beds? Is there any way to discourage them from making a crummy mess in their beds? They eat in bed, then they don't want to sleep in it... Shocked

I wonder why? lol.

Thanks-
Karinka

Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:07 pm

I am not sure of the different types of bedding, but I have heard that shavings can be bad for the rats due to allergic reactions to it. I use Carefresh, which says it is made from "wood pulp"....Not too sure how to make it though...(sorry)...
I searched, and found this website...maybe it is near you and could help?
http://www.ubd.co.nz/company-profiles/115167/

Renee

_________________
Renee
~Momma to Squeaker and Hana~
Gotta love the little creatures!

Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:56 am

I was just wondering if the Yesterday's News bedding was a soft bedding or a hard bedding material. I have my girls on Carefresh but I was thinking about changing because Squeaker sneezes when I use the grey version and not as much with the white one...but still, I don't want her sneezing because of the bedding. But I don't want their paws to be on rough bedding.
Thanks

_________________
Renee
~Momma to Squeaker and Hana~
Gotta love the little creatures!

Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:06 am

My guys don't seem to mind Yesterday's News at all. They don't usually sleep on it, 'cause they have six floors of shelves to climb on, and usually they sleep on the top shelf, but they seem ok with the "roughness" of it.

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:16 pm

It is hard--it resembles guinea pig or rabbit pellets. We used to use it for our rats, but switched out when we adopted Sparrow's rats (they were bedded on Carefresh). We were happy with it and continue to use YN in the litter pans.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:06 pm

I wouldn't use yesterdays news as a bedding (something for them to sleep on) However I am going to use it for a litter.

For bedding you might want to try going to your local fabric store and asking for remants. and line the shelves with it,and their igloos, or hidey boxs with it.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:10 am

What is the easiest (building, installation, and matinence wise) levels to have?

Fri Dec 31, 2004 8:07 pm

some will say wire floors some will say plastic floors, some will say wire floors with linoleum on it for easy wipe down. It is more on what YOU think is easy to clean.

I perosnally have wire floors that I put news paper on, so it pulls the pee away, and I can just pull the paper out when dirty. (of course I am working on litter training, lol)

When you use plastic shelving or linoleum covered wire floors or even paper floors you have to be careful of bumble foot, which is caused by dirty conditions and overweight (not wire floors!). You won't always be there to wipe up pee spots, and they will walk through it. So you have to just use your own opininion and common sense (for lack of better words? lol) to what you think will be easiest.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:35 pm

My boys are (mostly) litter trained so their shelves are lined with wash cloths which I wash once a week by hand, they don't really get that dirty. Their litter is Aspen shavings which is ok but I hate the smell. I wanted to switch to Carefresh for some time now (I've used it before) but the Aspen is just so darn cheap, $3.99 for a huge bag.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:20 am

My rat's cage has an enclosed plastic base. I have been trying to use fleece as a floor covering however the rats continually pull it up and into their nesting box Rolling Eyes

How does everyone else over come this, I cant seem to find anything to keep it down, velcro has been suggested to me but I'm not sure if this will work and or hurt them.

Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:24 am

I put newspaper down on the base (which the cage sits on, so the cage sits on the newspaper in the base).......don't know if I explained it very well, lol.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:34 pm

Hi,

I have read previous postings about the best stuff to use for floor coverings, but I live in the UK and we have a smaller choice over here Sad

I used to use sawdust but then discovered this was bad for rats. So, we tried some "dust extracted hay" but this doesn't seemt o be dust extracted at all - it makes me sneeze! Anyway, I am desperately trying to find something that will make a good floor covering....

I have discovered a "wood based" cat litter, it says it is dust free wooden pellets based on timber waste (I think including pine). Does this sound suitiable for rats?

Thanks!

Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:37 pm

Hi Matt.

I too am in the UK. If it includes pine then its probably not suitable. A good one that I use is Biocatolet, the big bag wasn't too expensive if I remember correctly, it lasts for a fair while, smells quite pleasant and doesn't get stinky in the cage too fast. Its paper based.

Hope that helps.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:54 pm

Hey there is a rat website that I go to that is UK based. Can you find Bio-catlet, or Bob martins? That would work.

http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/home/

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:10 pm

I recently switched from Carefresh to Carefresh Ultra (think Happy might've been allergic), but it's only available in ridiculously expensive small packages. Would it be plausible to use YN with a thin layer of Carefresh Ultra over it? Or would the rats just dig it up and make a bunch of bedding stew?

Also-- whenever I put litter in my girl's litterpan, they just shove it all out and to the floor. It's clay-based, so it's pretty heavy (or so I thought). Any way I can get them to actually *use* the pan instead of just throwing litter around?

Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:08 pm

Bedding stew is my bet. Mr. Green

When I called Petco to beg them to carry the giant size of Ultra, they said no one buys it cos of the cost, so they can't. But -- the lady did tell me to try Petco online and order as many bags as I could for my first order, since sipping is free on one's first order. Haven't done so because I just can't afford that much Ultra at once, but I hope to soon.

I did find this absolutely wonderful, safe, hemp bedding at Petco as well -- can't recall the name if it, I've used it all up. It has a very mild almost sweet smell, and they LOVED it. I mixed that with the regular CareFresh, then layered Ultra over the top of all. The mice were in heaven.

As for the litter box I've given up on pellet litters for that. I am convinced it encourages them to toss it LOL. And it's noisy! I put the same mix in the boxes I do in the rest of the cage. They go in the boxes, and they go in the rest of the litter too. But if I put the boxes in the corners, they use those the most.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:41 am

Kate wrote:

Bedding stew is my bet. Mr. Green

When I called Petco to beg them to carry the giant size of Ultra, they said no one buys it cos of the cost, so they can't. But -- the lady did tell me to try Petco online and order as many bags as I could for my first order, since sipping is free on one's first order. Haven't done so because I just can't afford that much Ultra at once, but I hope to soon.

I did find this absolutely wonderful, safe, hemp bedding at Petco as well -- can't recall the name if it, I've used it all up. It has a very mild almost sweet smell, and they LOVED it. I mixed that with the regular CareFresh, then layered Ultra over the top of all. The mice were in heaven.

As for the litter box I've given up on pellet litters for that. I am convinced it encourages them to toss it LOL. And it's noisy! I put the same mix in the boxes I do in the rest of the cage. They go in the boxes, and they go in the rest of the litter too. But if I put the boxes in the corners, they use those the most.

I've become a bedding scrooge with the Ultra because it's so expensive.

$20 for 30 litres, it's nuts. I just found a PetsMart in the area, and they carry the larger size, but I can't afford it either, heh. If the shipping weren't so much I'd just order Tekfresh White instead.

Was it "LifeMate Hemp Bedding for Small Animals"? Looked it up on their site-- from what you've said, it sounds great, and it seems pretty reasonably priced too (rofl, having problems comparing quarts to inches cubed).

And thank you for the litter advice! I never thought to try that. Mr. Green

Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:58 pm

	Quote:
	It's clay-based, so it's pretty heavy (or so I thought).

Umm... Aren't clay based litters not a good choice for rats? I'm sure I read that somewhere....

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:00 pm

If it is clumping litter (which usually is clay based) then it is dangerous to ratties. Since they tend to ingest some litter when grooming or just to test it out it's very bad. It will clump within the digestive track and can cause all kinds of problems.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Last edited by Christy on Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:07 pm

Ahh ok gotcha

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:38 pm

catherines wrote:

I've become a bedding scrooge with the Ultra because it's so expensive.

$20 for 30 litres, it's nuts. I just found a PetsMart in the area, and they carry the larger size, but I can't afford it either, heh. If the shipping weren't so much I'd just order Tekfresh White instead.

Was it "LifeMate Hemp Bedding for Small Animals"? Looked it up on their site-- from what you've said, it sounds great, and it seems pretty reasonably priced too (rofl, having problems comparing quarts to inches cubed).

And thank you for the litter advice! I never thought to try that. Mr. Green

Yup! LifeMate, that must have been it cos it was the only one I ever saw and that rang a bell! Really nice stuff: kind of straw-like, but very soft, you can stick your hand in the bag and not get that prickly feeling like from aspen. No dust until I got to the bottom of the bag. It's packed really tightly so it's a good price from what I recall, having compared it in the store to other litter/bedding of the same size.

A friend gave me an almost full giant bag of that TekFresh white from the shelter she works at. They couldn't use it. It's exactly the same as CareFresh Ultra, since I had a small bag of that at the same time. I used it up awfully fast though, since I figured it was free and I might as well give the mice an extra Christmas present. Mr. Green

Both the Tek white and the CF Ultra are sooooo nice and soft and dust-free.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:08 am

I'm a very happy rat owner!
I was at Walmart the yesterday and found a bedding called "Crittercare". It's the exact same thing as regular Carefresh (even made by the same people), but for $3.50 (I'm not sure; I know it was $3 something, I'll verify next time I go) per 10 liter bag as opposed to $5 for Carefresh.
Unfortunately, it only comes in 10l bags, but it's still cheaper than buying Carefresh in bulk-- $17.50 for 50l of CC as opposed to $18 for 50l CF. But that's at Petsmart; at Petco it's $15 and on sale for $13.50... might have to give up that boycott! :P

Guess the boys (spoiled girls need CF ultra for dust allergies) are gonna get Crittercare from now on, unless they get so bad once Cheerio matures that I have to switch to something wayyy more odor-masking. Stinky, stinky boys. But Cell-sorb Plus is so expensive, ack-- and I'm worried about YN breaking down into dust too quickly because of moisture & traffic (true?).
Oh, Kate, I converted the units (finally!)-- that hemp bedding is $6 for 24 liters at Petsmart ($9 at Petco). Nice. <33

Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:24 am

Hi all...

I use silica beads for cat litter and it works awesome. I like it way better than clay for my cat because its a lot cleaner. I was wondering if i should try it for my rats.

It is dusty when it comes out of the bag, but I've rinsed it off and i've just checked it now thats it has dried, and its no longer dusty, so that shouldnt be an issue.

Has anyone tried it or heard if its good or bad to use for rats?

Thanks.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:25 am

To me the risk of impaction would be too great. I'm not sure a rat could pass this if eaten, or what the harmful effects would be.

My 3 year old son once ate a silica gel packet (yes, I'm a bad mom) and Poison Control to me told make sure he drank ALOT of water and didn't get constipated or anything. Scared the crap out of me.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:27 am

If i thought my rats would eat the silica, I wouldnt think of using it.. I can see them occasionally eating a bit by accident, but I can't see that causing any problems. Silica is not toxic or poisonous. If it was, they wouldnt make it as cat litter. I'm sure the manufacturers would have considered the possibility of the silica sticking to cat fur then being licked off during grooming.

The only concern I have is them choking on it actually.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:32 am

Well, a bit of googling just told me that even small amounts of silicia dust causes lung cancer and ingesting silica will absorb all fluid it contacts.

From the AFRMA :

"WARNING!
Breathing Silica dust can cause silicosis, a progressive,
sometimes fatal lung disease, and may cause cancer.

Clay based litters linked to health problems

The vast majority of animal litters used today are clay or clay based (i.e. diatomaceous earth). Clays are composed primarily of silica, (SiO) and the dust from these products contains crystalline silica. Silica dust has been linked to at least two critical health problems: silicosis, a progressive, sometimes fatal lung disease, and cancer. The consumer should be pleased to know that governments are starting to do something about warning the public of these dangers.

On November 4, 1989, California voters overwhelmingly approved Proposition 65, commonly referred to as the consumer protection act, consumer product warning label act, etc. As part of this program, California now requires that consumer products containing clay and diatomaceous earth in the form allowing dust generation, will have to carry a warning label. Under #12601,b4,A; WARNING: “THIS PRODUCT CONTAINS SILICA, KNOWN TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA TO CAUSE CANCER” would be the warning appropriate to clay and diatomaceous earth products.

It does not take large amounts of clay dust to create a problem. New U.S. Department of Labor, OSHA standards for silica containing dusts have been established at 0.1 percent milligrams per cubic meter. Based on manufacturer’s data, a typical clay absorbent contains approximately 0.1 percent dust by weight. Do not forget that we are talking about dust in the air which is very light material. It does not require much weight to create a respectable dust cloud.

Calculations show one 10-pound bag of clay litter at 99.9% dust free includes 4 grams of silica dust. Four grams is enough to contaminate 40,000 cubic meters of space or 100 average homes. If evenly distributed, the quantity of silica containing dust would require each person in the area to wear a dust mask in order to meet work place health standards.

To add to the problem, recently introduced lines of pet litters, which promote “ball up when wet,” are merely ultrafine silica dust. Many pet stores are now experiencing a backlash of consumer complaints because of the fine dust and tracking. Veterinarians and breeders have also reported severe health problems to the extent that cats have, in fact, lost their eyesight as a result of contact with these products."

From catmom.com :
"Silica is a naturally occurring element, also known as Quartz, and is found in some of the clay litters. ... According to government standards, silica is a known carcinogen and a Prop 65 material in California."

Ingesting silicia causes dehydration, that is reason behind the info PC gave me.

Not worth the risk, sorry.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:36 am

BTW, this info also applies to cats, according to what I can find silicia is present in all clay litters. Looks like I'll be switching to feline pine completely now. Grr...this rates right up there with the Pine Bedding cover-up, if you ask me.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:02 am

Everything causes cancer depending on who you ask.
I've known many many cats that live to be 15-20+ years with regular silica filled litter.

I think you need to do a bit more than a quick google before jumping to conclusions. Silica is inert, non-toxic and biodegradable. Its used in human food even. Do you know what silica is? Its just sand. If sand causes cancer now, I give in.

Thank you for your opinion BadRattitude, but I'm curious to know if anyone out there has some actual experience using silica litter for their rats.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:18 am

Well, I've made my decision. I dont believe that silica causes cancer, and the dust can be washed away... however, with no dust, the silica crystals stick to anything that is a little moist. I was trying to decide if this would be a choking hazard, so I put one of my rats down on it and watched closely to experiment. I don't think there would be a choking hazard, as it only sticks to things that are slightly moist, and a mouth would be too moist for it to stick to. However, when he started cleaning himself the crystals all stuck to his feet and made him quite annoyed. I guess I stick to yesterday's news... too bad, I really like the silica crystals for the cat box.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:44 am

ive used it with my cats before (although i dont anymore), and have in the past considered using it in my rats cage... however i think its too risky- the crystals are pointy and can be sharp to little feet, i imagine it would be like walking on seashells. plus i am WAY too nervous about the dust, even if it is rinsed. ratties are so small they can be affected by something that would not affect a cat, plus they already have sensitive respiratory systems. i try to stick with natural materials, or at least some towels for bedding.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:46 am

For the sake of replying to your comment to me :

Silica is not sand, it is a crystalline form of Silcon Dioxide which happens to exist in nature as a form of quartz that gets mined for kitty litter.

Silica is carcinogenic to humans.

Silica has been proven to cause silicosis, pulmonary tuberculosis (TB), lung cancer, and scleroderma. This info is from the CDC, feel free to look :
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/02-129E.html

Silica in kitty litter is often bound to Cobalt Chloride, which is also a proven carcinogen.

It is a desiccant, which absorbs all moisture that it comes in contact with, this can cause dehydration and death in large amounts.

It's rather not nice to assume someone doesn't know what they are talking about just because they used Google to find a link between silica and rats. I was simply trying to see if any one with rats commented on it, however, since the AFRMA has stated that it is clearly dangerous, few rat people are willing to take that risk.

Rats live a long time on pine bedding too.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:49 am

The silica I have are beads... not sharp, and the dust rinsed completely off... I'm not concerned about either of those things at all.. but there's still the sticky problem... a dry mouthful could be a serious choking hazard. I've given up on the idea though. I just thought it would be good for the smell of the boys cage.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:54 am

BadRattitude... I got the impression that you didnt know from your first post. I'm not saying that to be insulting.. you know a lot about rats, and you cant be expected to know everything. I can do google searches too.. but I was looking for someone with actual experience on using it.

I'm sorry, but doing a google search and looking at a few websites doesnt make you an expert. And sodium Silica is a component of beach sand.

Last edited by Silencio on Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:57 am; edited 2 times in total

Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:20 am

Just because a pet manufacturer says something is safe is NOT a guarantee. Safety issues are worse for fish and reptile products, but you should always research things.
Wouldn't a cat litter be incredibly drying anyway? I mean, I'd rather live in a room full of aspen than a room full of sand.
Cedar is much worse than pine, but rats kept on pine develop respiratory infections like 100% of the time. Hemp bedding I'm not so sure about. It set off my allergies.

Erin B.

_________________
I feel so listless, I think they're drugging my cocoa.

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:44 pm

	Silencio wrote:
	I'm sorry, but doing a google search and looking at a few websites doesnt make you an expert. And sodium Silica is a component of beach sand.

I didn't say I was an expert, however, if you have a question for an expert my hubby is haz-mat trained and was certified (doesn't need it for work anymore) and can answer it. Silica is considered a hazardous material and people who work with it have to use self-contained respirators. Just because I never became an "expert" in it, doesn't mean I don't have access to information on it. I draw on resources other than my own.

Silica is in beach sand, beach sand is also dangerous when inhaled. Just because something is safe in one form doesn't mean it is in another.

Personally, we don't use pine bedding for our rats and the science behind that is much less, than exists to back up the dangers of silica. Hundreds of people die from silica every year, and no I didn't know how much it takes to cause lung problems, but it is rather small amounts according to the CDC, rinsing cannot possibly remove every small particle, that's just impossible.

Also it's going to be a huge risk for ringtail, that I can tell from my own knowledge.

You asked for opinions, so I gave mine, you then stated it was worthless because I wasn't an "expert". If you wanted advice from an expert you should have said so. I gave you my opinion, and the info from the "experts" including the CDC is that it's not safe for anyone. If you are going to ignore the facts that get posted and do what you want, then there's really no point in asking.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:47 pm

BTW, everything doesn't cause cancer according to the CDC, you can pretty much bet that if they say it does, it does.

_________________

Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:20 pm

Just to back up the health risk with silica dust - Silicosis and asbestosis are two of the most common forms of lung disease caused in industry by breathing in particulate matter.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000134.htm shows the result of short and long term exposure to silica dust in humans.

The form of cancer that is associated with asbestos exposure and now thought to be associated with silica exposure as well is mesothelioma - the kind of lung cancer that killed Steve McQueen.

Personally I wouldn't risk it, not only because of that but the choking and intestinal obstruction risk - if silica based litters are as absorbant as I believe they would be, then there is a good chance that it can swell in the gut and cause an obstruction. JMHO.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:20 am

Please keep in mind that anyone that bothers to reply to a post for help and has done extra research is only trying to help. Whether advice is taken or not is up to the individual. We're here to try to help each other out and, in turn, receive help when needed.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:06 am

I've read articles about a number of everyday items causing cancer too. I simply don't believe everything I read. Controlled experiments can "prove" anything, and can do so with insignificant numbers while not telling you how insignificant these numbers are. There are too many "may"s and "sometimes" for that to be fact.

	Quote:
	Just because a pet manufacturer says something is safe is NOT a guarantee.

I thought that was obvious, I guess I should have been specific. My point with that is that they wouldnt be able to make money off of it for so many years if every customer's cat got cancer from it, and this is why they do consider the basics.

Anyway, silica causing cancer is not fact, while silica being a choking hazard because it sticks to ones month is.

Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:29 am

From reading this whole thread, it just seems like a bad idea to risk it. Whether you believe it can cause illness or that it just might lead to impaction, it's probably not the best litter choice, especially when there are litters out there that seem to be almost completely safe.

_________________

Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:53 pm

My girls have taken to Using the vinyl floor in thier cage for the potty! I am going to attemp to put a litter tray in the corner where most of the rasins land. Lyric sits on the level abone and just let's them drop. Shrug

I trried laying a piece of news paper down to soak some of the pee. But Piper decided it needed to be shred and used for bedding. the hammock is now stuffed FULL On Cloud 9

I guess they find it comfy. lol
Spot cleaning sometimes get put off because things get real craxy around here.

What else could I try to soak up the pee? and possibly diaposable. ?

any Ideas will help! thanks!

_________________
Merry and The Sunflower Thieves!

Lyric Bean, Emma Kaboodle, and Harley Quinn the rex head.

To all those who have crossed the bridge before us...
Piper Monkey
Princess Zelda "It's beautiful here!, you should see me now, I'm perfect."

Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:12 am

I dunno about everyone else but I find kitty litter is quite good wink

_________________

..Rosie....Opal...Pebbles...Ruby....Pixie..

19.10.05 Angel rat

Pixie ~ sleep tight my little 'cheeky bum' xox

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:09 pm

We use newspaper that we shred ourselves. The rats love to play tug-of-war with it! We also have towels and anti-pill fleece for nesting. I have heard that using rabbit food works, but have yet to try it.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:59 am

Anyone tried the citrus rind bedding?

Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:12 am

Um... no. Not heard of it... but somehow I'd be wary... Ratty noses are very sensitive to smells and what smells nice to us might well be overpowering for them... also, depending on the precise contents of it, many people may not want to take the risk of their rats accidentally or deliberately chowing down on it - male rats can develop kidney cancers if they are exposed to a component of citrus fruit skins (well the oils in them) in high enough doses - while its unlikely on the whole that they will consume enough to cause problems even with pure fruit, its something many people might not want to risk.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:19 am

I've never heard of citrus rind bedding but agree with LW, it sounds potentially harmful to rodents.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:12 pm

my dad is making me a wooden cage and i was wondering what to cover the wooden floor with. It will be made out of laminated wood as well. does anyone no what a good size for it would be??

Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:28 pm

You could put fitted peices of plexiglass over the wood

_________________

God is like soap...Aren't you glad you have Him? Don't you wish everybody did?

Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:01 pm

i think carefresh is waaay too dusty. and it stinks when its wet. it makes my ratties sneeze. i have heard of carefresh ultra and its spose to be dust free and super great. its carefresh but white, not grey. anyone use this? i have thought about giving it a try. by boys are on shreeded news papper that i have to clean every couple of days.

_________________
RIP Slippery

Pets i currently have
two rats- Ciceil and Fry
leopard gecko- Tango
lop mix rabbit- Ryo (bun)
and a boyfriend- Bruces

Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:07 pm

I haven't, but I have heard it's less dusty.

Noticing you use paper at the moment, have you tried the paper cat litters? I'm a big fan of them for absorption and smell control. The one I use is not particularly dusty (I use Biocatolet) and not to mention much cheaper than a lot of small pet beddings.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:23 pm

CareFresh Ultra actually is softer and nice than regular. I would sleep in it if I could. Mr. Green

It really is super-great, IMO.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:30 pm

I posted a reply, but it didn't seem to work.. so here goes again.

I know it's an old post, but I wanted to share an experience with silica litter about 2 weeks ago.

We recently got a kitten and because I'd only ever had outdoor cats, we started trying different kitty litters to see which we liked best. When we tried the silica crystals one, I liked the way it absorbed the urine, so I thought I'd try it on the rats.

My rat cage has a wire bottom, so they never got contact with the litter (or so I thought). I put a thin layer in the tray underneath. About 2-3 days later I went up to them in the morning and they were huddled together in their little house. Then I noticed they seemed different, so I tapped the cage and they barely moved. So I picked one up and it was stone cold. So I grabbed them both and held them to try and warm them while Hubby got a hot water bottle. I laid them on the slightly more than body temp hot water bottle with my hands over them to warm them. I noticed that one of them seemed to be having difficulty breathing or something, she was making jerky movements like she has having difficulty swollowing or taking a breath. No wheezing or anything... just the chest lurching. The other one just looked sleepy - no chest lurching.

After a few minutes the sleepy one had perked up a little, no change on the worse one though. We had to go out somewhere and couldn't take them with us, so I left them some food and lettuce (for water) and put them in one of those plastic "kritter keeper" type tanks to keep the warmth in. We were gone about 30-60mins. When we came back the sleepy one was fine (and munching away), but the other was dead (or maybe alive but died shortly after, I forget now). I fully cleaned and disinfected the cage and replaced the litter with the old stuff I'd been using. The next day when I got up and checked on the remaining rat, she was again stone cold and not moving. No breathing difficulty though. So I repeated the heat thing, and she again came good. I watched her all day and over the following days and she was fine. She was slightly larger than the other one, so perhaps thats why she survived when the other didn't.

Since the only thing that had changed in that time was the litter, I assume that they either reached down and grabbed some and ate it, or that some airborne particles were ingested. Either way, I threw out all that litter, I wouldn't use it for the cat anymore either!

I waited a week to check she was ok, then I bought her a friend, and it's been about 2 weeks since now and she's fine.

In the kitty litter tray I don't like those fine clay ones either, as the urine just makes muddy slush on the bottom of the tray which is hard to clean. I was using an organic plant based stuff that the RSPCA sponsors. Which is fine for them to eat apparently (it's what I used for 3 years with my first rat) But since it smells kinda cereally/earthy my husband hates it as much as smelly cage smell, so I had to change. I don't mind it, but he hates it.

At the moment I'm using something that I bought at the pet shop specifically for rats and mice which we believe (it didn't say) is a clay one. it actually looks like little bits of stone/rock though, not like the normal clay kitty litters. Its sort of in shards (hard to explain, think of thin triangular type shapes)... anyway... whatever it is ... I put a REALLY thin layer of it, and covered it in fine mesh so it's well out of ratty hands way. it's got a slight fragrance, and it actually works really well. Its been in and unchanged for a week and no hint of odor. I just tip off the pellets and it still looks and smells brand new. I was wary of it after the previous problem, but so far so good. It was very expensive though. For the price I could have bought a large (2kg) bag of kitty litter, I got a small (500g) packet of this stuff.

.....as for the cat, a couple of days ago I bought 2 bags to try, a plantation pine (I assume by its smell) sawdust/fine woodship one and one made from recycled phonebooks (that standard grey paper pellet one most pet shops seem to use). The pellet one was useless as kitty litter (unless you change the whole tray each time they use it, all it did was help spread the poo further), but I figure it'll be perfect for the ratties - I'm trying it in a litter box for them. The sawdust one works perfectly for the cat (but I'd never use it for the rats because of the health risks).

Hope that helps.

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:35 pm

Wow. That's a terrible story. Yesterday's News, which is a recycled litter, is a good choice for ratties. Also, you might want to look into a new cage bottom. There are risks associated with a wire floor, and unless they have a LOT of other places to stand, it's not a good idea to have them walking constantly on wire mesh. A bottom tray with no mesh is ideal for ratties.

I'm so sorry you lost one of your first ratties. There are LOTS of unsafe products for rats- even ones marked as "rat" supplies at pet stores, and it's a LOT safer to check with someone than to risk losing a rattie Sad

.

_________________

Sun Apr 17, 2005 6:49 pm

I'd also go with the paper based cat litters. I've gone through a lot of things, but paper cat litters seem to be the best choice for my lot.

Things to avoid in litters include: swelling litters, clumping litters, pine, cedar, very dusty litters. There are lots of choices (there's a sticky about litter choices which should give you feedback on the pros and cons of different choices) you could go with - everything from alfalfa pellets to cloth!

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:45 am

I use paper towels for bedding and i Use yesterdays News for litter. I have also used Rabbit pellets for litter. they are really absorbant and the rats can chew on them if they most. (and they usually must) I have heard of putting in rabbit hay as well for bedding but don't think it would be soft enough. I am allergic to the aspen so thats out for me. I clean the towels out every couple of days and clean once a week. I also use dishtowels for hammocs and they are washed every week as well. I also wash the other face clothes and old towels I throw in with the hammocs every week.

Sun May 08, 2005 2:30 am

I'm sorry about your baby, ratatouille. It is an old post, but new ratpeople who are thinking about trying it will read it.

I also lost one of my first ratties to the "pearl" litter. I figured, "No rat in its right mind would put that in its mouth." Well, I was inexperienced and wrong. I came in to give them breakfast the next morning and Tina was cold and stiff, stretched out as if she'd had a seizure. Cry

I grabbed Rosie out of the cage and pried her mouth open, I was freaking out so bad I carried her into the bathroom and rinsed out her mouth and bathed her. I sneaked her with me to work in her carrier and watched her like a hawk all day. I was so lucky I didn't lose her too.

Needless to say, when I got home, the cage was cleaned and the "pearls" went right in the garbage.

_________________
"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your f------g khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." ~ Tyler Durden

Mon May 09, 2005 2:21 pm

Hello,
I need to know a good uk site that will delivery quality bedding etc. What do people recomend? My girls arent litter trained so they need an overall cover in the bottom of there cage. Unfortunately I only have a wee tiny pet shop near me and they have nothing in the way of bedding/litter etc. Any suggestions would be great guys

Mon May 09, 2005 4:42 pm

Are you after bedding or litter?

Bedding wise, I use just shredded tissue paper and cloth (which I wash daily). Cloth comes from clothes in charity stores, shredded paper bedding comes from the local garden centre (or ripped off the roll in the kitchen!).

Litter wise, I use Biocatolet (paper based cat litter), which again, comes from the local garden centre in huge bags, but you can also get smaller bags of it in Tescos, Sainsbury's etc.

Online wise, the only place I've ordered pet stuff from is http://www.petplanet.co.uk/shop.asp but I don't get either bedding or litter from them.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed May 11, 2005 3:38 am

Hey guys,

So my two new boys are happily ensconsed in their new cage, but I realized that their cage is starting to smell BIG time!! I'm using carefresh regular and was told that was good for smell absorption... anyone else having something that they think works really good for smells? so far the boys haven't been sneezing or wheezing...i'm "trying" to train them to poop in a litter pan, but they definitely insist on peeing on everything in sight... short of completely changing the bedding everyday, does someone have a better suggestion? (yes, I'm scooping out the poop as best as i can, 'cept those darn things are hard to spot on the black plastic/gray carefresh)... HELP!!!

Thanks!!! Jen

Wed May 11, 2005 8:46 am

Yesterday's News might be a better choice

. I always thought Carefresh was stinky.

_________________

Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 pm

Hi

I use to use Carefresh, it was so dusty

So I tried Yesterdays News, I like it a lot better because there is no dust, my rats don't sneeze as much, it controls odor better & cheaper
I buy it at Petsmart, I also buy the spray that smells like baby powder, I think its called Clean Cage, I also buy that in Petsmart, since I switched to Yesterday News I haven't been using the spray that smells like baby powder at all

Jo

Wed May 11, 2005 9:33 pm

Switching from the spray may also have a lot to do with sneezing. Ratties have very sensitive respiratory systems, and scents/chemicals in sprays can often cause them to act up. When my girls' cage is clean, it smells like absolutely nothing, and that's what I strive for.

_________________

Thu May 12, 2005 2:44 am

We usually buy the 23 litres of Carefresh (probably about $12). It's a pretty good litter for people with allergies, so far. It lasts a good 2 1/2 to 3 months.

My question is, would 30 lbs of Yesterday's News (for $12), be a better value? We only have two girls, and clean out the cage once a week.

_________________
Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Thu May 12, 2005 4:14 am

So I bought some carefresh ultra, just to test it out... I'll let you know how it goes... after reading some of the other posts, I'm starting to wonder how often the litter needs to be changed? afterall, this particular stuff is a bit expensive! any thoughts?

Thu May 12, 2005 4:44 am

It really depends how many ratties are on it, if they are litter trained, if they poop and pee all over it or just in one or two spots etc.

I've found that in a reasonable size cage (one suitable for a pair of rats) with just two rats in, I do a full litter change about once a week. A smaller cage, or more rats, may well mean you need to change more often than that. If they go in just one corner, you can clean that out every few days and leave the main litter for a bit longer. If they're potty trained, you can put litter in just the pan, and something else (cloth, paper, etc) in the rest of the pan, whereas if they go everywhere, then you'll need to do a full change more regularly. Basically, if you can smell wee/poop, then they should be changed ASAP. You want to try and balance it so that you're changing it before it gets smelly, but without doing extraneous litter changes.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu May 12, 2005 7:53 am

Is it ok to use cat litter in my rats' cage? They get stinky SO fast. I clean them enough and they have 2 kinds of bedding/litter already. They have carefresh and aspen but it doesn't seem to do the trick, at least in the cage with three rats. I used to put baking soda in with the litter but I'm worried that will hurt their respiratory system.

If it's ok to use, what kind is ok? Obviously I don't want anything they can choke on. I've never had cats so I don't know what kind to use. Any advice would be great! Thanks!

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Thu May 12, 2005 8:30 am

Hi! I have Carefresh and Aspen too but it seems to do the trick okay.

I also use Yesterday's News for my rabbits but haven't used it for the rats yet (well not long enough to see if it works or not).

I know that for the rabbits it works really well-and they have STINKY pee (re: straight ammonia). The only thing i would say to avoid is clumping cat litter...for the throat-sticking aspect.

Thu May 12, 2005 3:09 pm

If you want to use cat litters, go for paper based ones - like Yesterday's news, Biocatolet (available in the UK, not sure about in the US and Canada). I personally found it best all round for absorbing wee and smells.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat May 14, 2005 12:13 am

Has anyone tried alpha-dri before? Does it help absorb the pee smell?

Sat May 14, 2005 12:59 pm

I'm really lucky, my 2 girls are litter trained now. In their old cage they went everywhere (even when I tried to litter train them). Their cage had a wire floor, so it just fell through to the litter pan at the bottom, which I had to change regularly. I found the best litter was a small scented pellet made for rats and mice litter. (It's made in Aus, so there is no point giving a brand name or anything). It clamed to absorb odour, and it really did! Because they never touched the litter, I used to just pick out the poos regularly, stir the stuff around and change the lot when it smelled. I'd tried newspaper and paper towels but they were hopeless (they just reached through and shredded them), and a cat litter the petshop where I got my first rat suggested (which wasn't bad), but the scented stuff was much better. Now they are litter trained, I buy a recycled paper cat litter (even the bag it comes in is recycled paper). I think it must be like the "Yesterday's news" I see people mentioning.

When they moved into their new cage they started going in one corner (luckily for me, the top level I can get to easiest), so I just put a takeaway food container of litter in that corner, and then a layer on the cage floor (in the pan - its a wire cage). Within a few days they only seemed to go in the litter tray (Must have been a thank you for their new cage!) I do hear the occasional poo drop, but they seem to do all their wee in their litter tray and 99% of their poos. I need to clean that out every day, even with only 2 rats (Its amazing how smelly a bit of wee can be). So I have 2 containers so I can make sure its always clean, dry and filled with litter for them. I just lift out the old one, and put the new one in. Every few weeks I change the bottom litter (it doesn't need changing more regularly, there is hardly anything in it). I wipe down the walls and floors with a baby wipe.

I must admit, I love wire floors. Some people say they can cause bumblefoot, but others say it doesn't. I had a fishtank plus wire cage topper for my first rats, and one of them got bumblefoot. Not sure what did it, but the rat was old and I've read that age can be a factor. He spent most of his time in the bottom fishtank part (which was clean).

Ideally I'd like my rats to have no contact with soiled litter or surfaces. I'm sure its no good for them. Their current cage has a litter floor that they can get to (though they hardly ever go down there), but at least because they are 99% litter trained, there isn't much more than a few little poos in there. If they weren't litter trained, I'd probably work out a way to raise them off the litter.

_________________
.:{Obsidian}:.

Sun May 15, 2005 11:28 pm

I've been using Carefresh for about 5 months, and that's all my girls have been on since they've come to me. I keep two in one cage and go through the really big bag of Carefresh which costs close to $20(the biggest they sell at Petco, but I don't recall the size) about every month and a half to two months, changing once per week. It controls odor pretty well, and since I have wood allergies I can't use any wood bedding.

My question is, I've heard that Yesterday's News controls odors better and is more cost-effective. At Petsmart, it's 30 lbs. for $12-$13. Would it be more cost-effective to switch? And if so, how do I get them used to their new bedding, because we just ran out of Carefresh today. Can we just put Yesterday's News in at the next litter change without a problem?

_________________
Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Mon May 16, 2005 12:38 am

I always just put in new litter - really no need to acclimate them to it. They will try to sample it a bit but once they realize it's not edible they leave it alone. Also, if you do go with the Yesterdays News purchase the big 40lb bag from the cat section. It turns out cheaper and it's the exact same thing.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Mon May 16, 2005 1:40 am

	Christy wrote:
	They will try to sample it a bit but once they realize it's not edible they leave it alone.

Lmao, poor dears.

Thanks so much! I'm always worried about putting them through stressful situations, heh, so I guess I'm a little paranoid. I never would have known about the price difference, so thank you for that tidbit too.

_________________
Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Sun May 22, 2005 1:44 am

Hi Cera! The only thing that bothers me about Yesterday's News is that I would hate to have to walk around on it barefoot all the time. Kind of hard and gravelly.

You can get a knock-off brand of Carefresh at Walmart called something like Critter Care - it smells kind of cardboardy compared to Carefresh. So I use the Cat-Litter type of Yesterday's News from the supermarket and mix it with Carefresh, for the softness/absorbancy factor. The YN kind of sinks to the bottom so the ratties walk on the nice Carefresh. Also, use a little less bedding than you think you need - especially if you completely change out the bedding once a week.

Good luck!

Christy: I tried that S'Wheat Scoop stuff, and it is apparently edible - my rat Rosie gorged herself on it! Nutso

_________________
"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your f------g khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." ~ Tyler Durden

Sun May 22, 2005 2:08 am

I read that bumblefoot could also be encouraged by traipsing around in pee pools - so as long as the pee isn't just sitting there, getting absorbed or dripping away, you should be good to go.

Also, I seem to remember someone posting that the corncob types of litter got moldy really easily - but then I'm wondering how long it was in the cage!? but then again, rats do produce an really amazing amount of pee...hmmmmm.

EvilGummy: (hee-hee EvilGummy, hee-hee) How the heck do you keep your ratties from eating S'wheat Scoop? My Rosie went around with her mouth open scooping it up like a little dump-truck. I thought it smelled nice, but it turned into like, dried up cream of wheat cement after a while, I had to SCRAPE it off.

_________________
"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your f------g khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." ~ Tyler Durden

Sun May 22, 2005 2:12 am

Thank you for the advice!

I always stick a few washcloths (big, fluffy ones) in there for them, and they manage to spend most of their time on the soft "bedding" surfaces. I've already bought the YN, and we'll be switching tomorrow, so I guess I'll just throw in one extra cloth during the cage cleanout, that way we wont irritate any rattie feet.

_________________
Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Sun May 22, 2005 10:11 pm

Does any one use this brand of litter it's from the same company as CareFresh? Well let me tell you what it says on the box. Not Pine or Cedar, #1 for #2, Naturally Soft, Pets LOVE it!, For Rabbits,Guneia Pigs, Hamsters, Rats, Mice, and Gerbils, Special blend of white Shavins', Lower in Aromatic Oils, Deodorizizes Naturally, Easy to use. I quote the description on the back.

All natural.All good. Your little critter will have a blast rockin' and rollin' in Super Soft Super Shavins'. Made from soft and natural wood shavings, great for tunneling,traveling,or bedding down for the night. Not so DUSTY. Cozy Critter is specially screened to reduce dust, sliversand other stuff that's not so good for you or your pet!

Sun May 22, 2005 11:30 pm

I'm not sure - Does it say anywhere on it what it is made of? Although cedar and pine are the "usual suspects" with wood shavings, other soft woods could also release similar compounds as cedar and pine I believe... Aspen is ok (it's a hard wood) but I guess it depends what these shavings actually are.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed May 25, 2005 4:59 am

I was wondering if it is ok to use rabbit pellets for litter? I know alfalfa is indigestable, but will it just pass (gaining no nutrients from it) or will it actually hurt them?

I ask becuase i go through about 60-90lbs (which cost about $70) a month, and I only have 3 cages!!!

Wed May 25, 2005 5:45 am

Well I've heard of people useing rabbit pellets as litter its suppose to be pretty good. Rolling Eyes

I used to cover my floors with cardboard and that worked pretty well till I got solid floors and my girls when they pee they pee in the very skinny cracks where its hard to clean! Those little stinkers!

Wed May 25, 2005 5:58 am

well I know that you can shred paper and place it throughout the cage, I spent no money at all on that, I have a over sized supply of paper....... I did have to change cages a lot more though, and they were always always tearing it and shredding it (noisy) I switched to this soft recycled paper stuff from kaytee, and also use aspen. They love it and have had very little szeezy problems compared to the carfresh prior to this!

Wed May 25, 2005 6:04 am

Have a read back through this thread, that will help.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Wed May 25, 2005 8:32 am

I did, it's mostly about kitty litter and YN, lol.

So will give rabbit pellets a try when we get paid then.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Wed May 25, 2005 9:51 am

I was checking around and asking people on another forum and someone came across, this.....

http://www.useful-items.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UI&Product_Code=AIRLITE
and was wondering if anyone thought this would be any good or if anyone has ever used it.

Wed May 25, 2005 10:03 pm

I can't quite see what it is - looks like it could be corrugated paper/card? If so, then it would be ok to use. I wonder how big the bits are, which might be a bit awkward if they're very large... It might be worth seeing if you can double check what it's actually made of, if there are any additives, if it's recycled does it have any ink, etc.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu May 26, 2005 5:03 am

What type of bedding do you all use for your rats? When I brought Chewey into the vet for her pneumonia, the vet said to get all my rats of the bedding even though none of my other rats have ever reacted to it. I know a lot of you use Yesterday's News, which I used to too, but it is sooooo expensive. So, I'm looking for an alternative. Thanks!

_________________
~*Ashli*~
The Harbor Rattery
http://HarborRats.tripod.com

Thu May 26, 2005 5:10 am

What bedding do you have them on at the moment? You can check over the bedding sticky thread for other ideas.

For litter, I use a different paper cat litter called Biocatolet - it's not the hard pellets like Yesterday's news but I find it a lot cheaper (I get the large bags designed for cats) and awesome at absorbing wee.
For bedding, I use shredded tissue paper and fleece (the flat stuff, not fabric with lots of loose bits). Both get changed every day or so (as soon as it gets peed on) and the fleece gets washed in hypoallergenic washing liquid and no conditioner, an extra rinse and air dried.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu May 26, 2005 5:14 am

For every different group of rats I've had I've had to use different bedding. My last pair got along great with recycled newspaper which stated it was the best for small animals since it was all natural, but my new rats didn't take to it. All three began sneezing the very first night. I switched to Aspen and their sneezing stopped immediately. More or less trial or error, though you definitely want to stay away from pine, cedar. Not only is Aspen free of any chemicals it's also pretty inexpensive. One 16 dollar bag (Canadian) will last me a couple months.

_________________
http://www.blackratstudios.com/

Last edited by Ablach_Blackrat on Thu May 26, 2005 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total

Thu May 26, 2005 5:27 am

i use Cell-sorb Plus and it is great! It is kinda heavy so they dont knock it out of the cage, and it is really absorbent!

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Thu May 26, 2005 6:19 am

I think it's 1/2 x 1/2 (inches) corrugated cardboard, any ink is safe, and if you don't want the ink ,just pay 1$ more for "show" bedding. otherwise there are no additives.

http://www.useful-items.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=UI&Product_Code=AIRLITE

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Thu May 26, 2005 7:24 am

You might try the Yesterday's News made for cats instead of small animals. You can usually find it in really large bags (I want to say 20lbs), and that'll end up being less expensive than most other litters I've seen around. Of course, I use cloth, which is basically free (and YN in their litter boxes), but that requires really regular changes (I actually do my girls' cloth bedding every other day, since they're litter box trained and mostly pee in their hammies

).

_________________

Thu May 26, 2005 9:36 am

The one I use IS for cats, lol, and it comes in the 30lb bags. Of course they refucse to be litter box trained.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon May 30, 2005 10:10 pm

Just to add my twocents

about litter. When I had my rabbits in my house, I could not keep the smell down with anything I used. I found Woody Pet. It is an equine bedding, made out of wood pulp. You can go to www.woodypet.com to find out all about it. It has a smell that can be a little nose itching, but it does diminish. I am now using it in the bottom of my rat cages. It is soooo absorbant and you can not smell anything. The litter doesn't really have to be changed very often at all. You can sift though it or mix it up to get the pellets to the bottom. You can actually wet the litter a bit (dampen it) and it will turn into a very soft-type sawdust-like substance so you can actually use a small spaced pooper scooper to take out the pellets. I really like it. I even use it under all my rabbit cages to cut down on the smell and flies! Just to give another option in bedding/litter. I get mine at the Tractor Supply...you should call first to see if they have it...some don't carry it and can only order it if you order a pallet full...it is much like the Aspen bedding, but a whole lot cheaper!

_________________
Dawn
Never to old to learn something new! Open your mind and let knowledge flow in!

Mon May 30, 2005 10:22 pm

Looks like it's one of the softwoods (like pine, cedar etc) that has been heat treated to remove as much of the the phenolic compounds as they can - the compounds that cause the problem. Some people use it, some people still aren't comfortable about... When it's fluffed up is it really like sawdust? I know that sawdust generally isn't a good plan (small particles can irritate lungs, nose, eyes etc) but not having handled this stuff, I don't know what it's like. What does it smell like when you get it out (apart from nose itching)?

If it crumbles when it gets wet, does that mean it goes powdery when it gets peed on?

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue May 31, 2005 8:44 pm

I'm not really sure how to expain it. It looks like sawdust, but it's heavier??? Everyday I sift and turn the woody pet, so every thing goes to the bottom of the cage. I've never had a problem with my rabbits with it, and their respiratory sensitivity is much like the rats. The inside rabbits used it in their litter boxes and in the pan under their cages. I even use it in their kindling boxes. I haven't lost any rabbits to respiratory problems. But with my homemade rat cages I do have wire on the bottom floor in which I put the woody pet over it....then when I clean the cages, all I have to do is lift out the cage and all the woody pet, pellets and so forth fall through the floor into the plastic bin it sits in.

It has a woody scent not unlike Aspen bedding. I think that the Aspen bedding smell is stronger though. I had to get used to it, and being that I have cedar allergies (among others) I only have a small problem the first few hours, then no problems at all. It is a lot like that Aspen bedding. The Aspen bedding breaks down into smaller particles too. I wish I could send you some so you can do the test that was on the website....I actually did this! And they don't eat it! My rabbits used to eat a bit of the Aspen bedding, but that stuff looks soo much like their feed....

I have never had a problem with this product...now granted it is the first time I have used it with rats, and if there ever is a problem, I will let everyone know, but I am pretty confident with it...I mean I breed rabbits, and I wouldn't use something to endanger them, nor would I willingly/knowingly use something that would endanger any of my animals. I also used this in my brooding pen for my baby ducks. And they are also hale and hearty adult ducks now.

_________________
Dawn
Never to old to learn something new! Open your mind and let knowledge flow in!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:23 am

It IS pine, just so "kilned" (is that even a word? lol) that it is "supposed" to have no phenols left in it.

I found it today (a freakin 30lb bag for 6 bucks) and from what I can tell it has NO odor (it's self) what so ever. if I were more "adventurous" I would try it. But I don't think we are going to do that.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:45 am

I agree I would still not trust it. Today I switched my litter to YN since I knew nothin' bout' the other stuff. My dad was so funny today I was at Pets Mart getting bedding and litter and I showed him YN and he said that looks hard so he picked up a bag of Cedar litter and said what about this ( he really cares about my rats I guess he would have to since he's the one bringing in the money when my mom is anesthia school and he has to pay $200 per rat to get them spayed so money wasn't a issue) I said no way and he asked me why and I gave a big speech about well you know respitory diase and so forth. wink

Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:46 am

I agree I would still not trust it. Today I switched my litter to YN since I knew nothin' bout' the other stuff. My dad was so funny today I was at Pets Mart getting bedding and litter and I showed him YN and he said that looks hard so he picked up a bag of Cedar litter and said what about this ( he really cares about my rats I guess he would have to since he's the one bringing in the money when my mom is anesthia school and he has to pay $200 per rat to get them spayed so money wasn't a issue) I said no way and he asked me why and I gave a big speech about well you know respitory diase and so forth. wink

Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:09 pm

lol, sounds like me!

Sounds like you have a great dad. there is something called airlite (horse bedding) as well, I found a site that you could get a 40lb bale for 7.50 (plus shipping). All it is is little 1/2" x 1/2" corrugated cardboard pieces. But it is supposed to work great. look it up.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:23 am

Nope never used it but will look it up for u and see what its all bout'.

Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:26 am

It says it has two types of products some are pine and some are aspen its suppose to control odors 3 to 4 times better than wood. i think it's OK.

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:10 am

airlite? not the same thing as I'm talking about, the airlite I'm talking about is corrugated cardboard cut up in 1/2in x 1/2in pieces.
I found this new thing, called "good mews" paper based cat litter, it looks like YN, but is made from paper fibers, and a bit more greyish, instead of grey and white (plus the last 2 months I've been finding white plastic pieces in Yesterdays News, I didn't like that)

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:49 pm

You should probally look into it. Go to their site and look under FAQ there somebody might of asked if its good for small animals.

Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:31 am

AirLite is the same as Hunt Club horse stall bedding. 1/2 x 1/2 bits of corrugated cardboard. I an trying it out now. Seems to be working fairly well in the odor control department, but it tends to be a little dusty when you get to the bottom of the bag.

I have 4 boys (was 5 but I just lost one) in a homemade wire cage that is 36" long x 18" wide x 48" tall with an "under bed plastic storage bin" type bottom, and two 24" long x 24" wide x 36" tall homemade wire cages with "rabbit pan" bottoms, 3 girls in one and 5 girls in the other. I just use the shop vac a couple times a week to suck out the damp spots, then take a dust pan and shake/sort through the dry stuff to sift out the poos and vac them up.

Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:17 am

I have a question to ask as to what I should do for bedding with really good odor control being a huge requirement. I've always had boys in the past and this year I'll be getting boys again- somewhere around 2 or 3 in a Martin's R-685. I live in an -extremely- small apartment so smell is a big concern and with the boys I had before, smell was always a trouble. I used Cell-Sorb bedding alone, no litterboxes but I changed the bedding twice a week and scrubbed down the cage once a week as well. I washed their hammocks often and the cage was powder coated too. But the smell always lingered. I'm thinking it was because they weren't litter trained and the Cell-Sorb just couldn't handle that much mess.

This time around I'm going to litter train with Yesterday's News and for bedding, use Carefresh Ultra and LifeMate hemp bedding mixed together. I'd love to use fleece or some other washable fabric as bedding but we have to pay to do our laundry Rolling Eyes

and I'd hate to have the smelly bedding sitting around until laundry day comes. The question is- would this eliminate most of the odor? Aside from the fact that it's not good for the ratties, it's just too much smell for this dinky little apartment. Sorry for the long post!

Tiana

_________________
Tiana

~~*Polar, Petey, and Kona the Burmese*~~

Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:24 am

I use a paper litter (Biocatolet) and personally find it superb for odour control even in a cage of non-litter trained rats - 5 boys and 2 spayed girlies. Not everyone agrees and Biocatolet is a little different in formulation from YN (YN being a pellet, Biocatolet is more fluffy/soft). For bedding, I use shredded paper and fleece. That does need changing every day (it does get stinky as soon as they pee on it) but if washing it is an issue then I can understand why it would be an issue - alternatives I can think of are to hand wash it (shouldn't take too long for just a little bedding), rinse it when you take it out to remove the worse of the pee and/or keep it in a tied bag/airtight container until wash day - which should keep the smell in.

I have a small flat as well, so I know what you mean. Other things I found were to regularly (two or three times a week) swap the hammocks and any other cloth stuff (tubes, cuddle cups, cubes, ropes etc), and make sure to wash/scrub all the objects in the cage regularly as well. Mine have wood platforms, and they get stinky REALLY fast, and the smell lingers after a while, so if you had wood items in the cage last time, that might be another reason. They need wiping down daily and washing a couple of times a week too (and changing completely every couple of months).

Hopefully, if you can get them young, you can persuade them to use a litter tray (which makes litter changes a bit easier) - my lazy boys, however, had none of it. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:51 am

I want to know how absorbent differnt litters are so I can find the best one for the cheapest. How many times per week do you have to change:

Aspen

Carefresh

Yesterdays News

Sweat Scoop

Cell-Sorb plus

Thanks in advance

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:33 pm

I just found this thing called Good Mews, it smells good, a bit like YN, but also a light lemony (best way I can describe it). So far it is good on odour control, and it is fairly cheap, 11 something for a 30lb bag.

I heard most ratties just eat the sweat scoop, lol.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:18 am

I have a question is corn-cob bedding good?

Mon Jun 13, 2005 4:57 am

	fancyblue#1 wrote:
	I have a question is corn-cob bedding good?

Corn cob isn't bad, but I personally don't like it. My guys like to kick it everywhere and it somehow gets tracked around the entire house. Rolling Eyes

I know there is a problem with molds growing on it if not cleaned often enough - especially in corners where ratties tend to pee most. And I never found it to be great on odor control either. But it is safe to use as long as you clean it out often.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:40 am

I also *HEARD* it can cause ring tail (or something like that) in younger rats? Does anyone want to comment on this?

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:15 pm

I've heard it linked as one of the predisposing factor of ringtail mainly in very young rats (as in babies) if the relative humidity drops too low - but I suppose the same could be true for any highly absorptive litter.

http://ratguide.com/health/integumentary_skin/ringtail.php

I've never used the bedding though, or seen ringtail.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:10 pm

Around here the only thing called "Good Mews" is the cat rescue in Atlanta. I decided to use yesterdays News. Should I change it once or twice a week?

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:02 am

It really depends - on your rats, if they're litter trained, how many you have, how big the cage is, if they pee/poop all over the place or just certain spots.

If you're really lucky, they're trained or only use a certain spot. Then you can clean the corners or tray out more frequently and the rest can wait a little longer. If they go everywhere, then you need to do the whole lot more frequently. The more rats you have, the more often it needs changing.

I've always found it by trial and error. If it's smelling, then it's too long between changes. The ideal way is to work out how long it takes to start to smell, and change it a day or two before then. My cage of 8 needed changing twice a week for comfort, but it's a big cage and they pee everywhere.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:59 pm

My cage base is 27" by 27". At first they used one corner, but when I cleaned the cage they started going everywhere. The cage has four rats, and I use Yesterdays News.

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:41 pm

I'd play it by ear at first - when I swap litter, I tend to check it every day, make sure it's dry and not stinky. When it starts getting a bit icky, then I change it. After a few times, I will have an idea of how long it is before I see it's icky, and make the changing interval a day or two less than that.

Edit: I try not to let it get to the point while I am going through that initial trial and error phase of letting it get really stinky (as in - walk into the room and go Yuck

), but just so as when I get close to it, I start to notice it's getting a little less than smellfree.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:13 am

I am using corncob bedding is that ok?

Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:18 am

I bought her a new food and she will only eat that she will not eat her granis,dried bananas and corn.

Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:28 am

Corn cob bedding is fine as long as it's cleaned regularly (it should not be allowed to get soggy). What kind of new food are you using?

_________________

Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:31 am

It is a homemade thing they make at this pet shop the other (the older food ) is store bouty this is homewmade(I think)

Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:32 am

I use the wood stove pellets, and I must say, they absorb very well, but I haven't noticed that they keep the smell down as well as I would like. I plan on ordering some Tekfresh from Kim's Ark and mixing it in to see if that kills some of the smell.

My friend Twitch swears by Yesterday's News, though. I guess it all boils down to personal preference, and of course budget.

_________________

mother to:
rats: scooter, kermit, lestat + tsume
mouse: bingo [rip sweety. you're with peanut + wizard at the bridge]
horse: phoenix

Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:21 pm

Hello, I have a 4 story wire cage, and unfortunately the levels are wire mesh. I have cut pieces of lanolium to cover the wire parts where my rats will be walking, but how do I fasten the pieces down? Thanks in advance.

_________________
~Rat and Fish Addict~

Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:27 am

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but here goes....

I take care of my rats well, in my humble opinion. They have plenty of cage space, get play breaks, food and water changed daily, cages cleaned on a routine basis, etc.
Here's my issue:
I've tried lining the bottom of their cage with a few different things, to cover the wire part. Aspen shavings, newspaper, cardboard. They always manage to push aside or tear up anything lining the bottom, exposing some of the wire underneath. I've considered removing the wire bottom so the removable litter pan is directly underfoot, but that would mean their poos and pees do not fall out of their reach. That doesn't seem sanitary. But I do worry about their little rattie feet. They have had no health problems, as of yet, related to walking on wire, so this isn't a dire situation. And every other level/walking surface of the cage is safe for their feet.
But I was curious if there is anything else I could use or try that would keep the wire bottom covered, but still make the litter pan a functional part of their set-up.
All suggestions are welcome.
Thanks!

Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:14 am

Honestly, I can't think of anything that would cover the wire AND keep poop and pee down there. If you're worried about them walking in it, I wouldn't. Rats usually pick one corner to do their business in, and confine their poos to that area. As long as you keep it clean, you shouldn't have to worry about them wallowing in it.

You could also try litterbox training them.
Check out http://www.dapper.com.au/articles.htm#litter for more info on how to do it.

_________________
--Brittany

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."

Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:57 am

I guess it depends on the spacing of the wire in the cage floor. Wire floors, once thought to be a cause of bumblefoot, have now been shown NOT to cause bumblefoot issues. If it's a comfort thing, and the other levels are all comfortable solid surfaces to walk on, then I wouldn't worry too much. The main concern would be if the wire bottom is spaced far enough that a foot could get caught, making it difficult to walk or easy to trap a foot.

I think, whatever you cover the wire with - unless it's impermeable so all urine drains through, then some urine and droppings are going to get trapped any way. If you want it as a real "filtration system, it may be better to put litter underneath the wire and not worry overly about covering it. Then, if you did want to add something to make it a bit softer on the paw, something like fabric would be a plan - it's still going to trap droppings and urine, but at least you can change it on a daily basis and wash it well, and if you cut it to size and attach some simple fastenings onto it, then you can attach it to the bars to keep it in place.

If it's any consolation, parts of my cage are also wire flooring - none of mine have problems with their feet, parts are solid, and they seem perfectly comfortable walking on it. But it's narrow squares (just big enough for a poop to fit through lengthways) and they seem quite happy with that, without there being a risk of trapping a foot or hand.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Jul 03, 2005 7:51 am

Anyone here use Super Shavins? I've used Carefresh, Aspen. woodpellets.. corncob.. and these shavings are by far the best thing ever! I swear there's no dust at all from it! And it soaks up pee like mad! It's the best stuff I've ever used.. Just thought I'd post this link in case anyone never heard of it.. I think it's just great!

http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/bcrsushbeinf.html

I also found this site.. seems really neat!

http://www.absorbent.com/

_________________
To me a lush carpet of pine needles or spongy grass is more welcome than the most luxurious Persian rug - Helen Keller

http://photobucket.com/albums/v215/Glideriffic/

Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:12 pm

I think someone else mentioned this....

Aye...

(5th & 6th post down on page 6 of this thread)

If it's a soft wood, I think there may still be the possibility of some of the phenols being released - all softwoods release them to a greater or lesser extent (or so I understand). However, I know they do treat some products (usually pine) to remove the phenols. Some people will use those kinds of products, some still feel that there's a risk there. However, without being able to know precisely what these shavings are made from, I really can't give a firm opinion one way or the other. Confused

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:11 pm

I wasn't sure where to put this, so please feel free to move it if appropriate.

I'm looking to assemble a user survey on rat beddings. Anyone with experience using any/all rat beddings, I would like it if you could participate.
I will be creating an averaged rating chart system (published on a website) based on user reviews, for general public use.

Scale is 0-5
0 being less desirable
5 being most desirable
You can also use a 0.5 vote if needed for better accuracy.

Please let me know if you feel an additional category should be added.
You can reply with your results to this message, or in a private message or email to angelcumbersom@gmail.com
Feel free to rate as many beddings as you would like. Any small pet, or cat (rat safe) litters are acceptable.

Categories as follows:

Type: (What the bedding is made from)
Biodegradable: (Yes or No)
Flushable: (Yes or No)
Scented: (Natural or added scent, please clarify.)
Shape: (The shape of individual bedding pieces.)
Colour: (The overall colour of the bedding.)
Dust: (How dusty is this product new and after being used, as a total. 0-5)
Comfort: (Overall comfort for rats sleeping/walking on bedding. 0-5)
Odor Control: (How well does the bedding hold up to controlling odors, up to the day of cleaning. 0-5)
Longevity: (Is the bedding long lasting, or must it be changed more frequently then others? 0-5)
Tracking: (Do you often find the bedding around the floor of the cage, or through out your house, or little to no tracking. 0-5)
Absorbency: (General urine absorbency ability & absorbency against water spills, or leaky water bottles. 0-5)
Overall Safety: (Is this product safe in every way for rats? 0-5)
Cost Value: (Does product provide enough bedding for the cost of what you pay per package? 0-5)

Once again, thank you to all whom participate.

_________________
"If you won't rescue, don't breed"

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:21 pm

Categories as follows:

Type: (What the bedding is made from) ALPINE
Biodegradable: (Yes or No) UNK?
Flushable: (Yes or No) NO
Scented: (Natural or added scent, please clarify.) NO
Shape: (The shape of individual bedding pieces.) SMALL WOOD SHAVINGS
Colour: (The overall colour of the bedding.) TAN
Dust: (How dusty is this product new and after being used, as a total. 0-5)
5
Comfort: (Overall comfort for rats sleeping/walking on bedding. 0-5)
5
Odor Control: (How well does the bedding hold up to controlling odors, up to the day of cleaning. 0-5)
5
Longevity: (Is the bedding long lasting, or must it be changed more frequently then others? 0-5)
4 (1 to 2 times a week)
Tracking: (Do you often find the bedding around the floor of the cage, or through out your house, or little to no tracking. 0-5)
3
Absorbency: (General urine absorbency ability & absorbency against water spills, or leaky water bottles. 0-5)
5
Overall Safety: (Is this product safe in every way for rats? 0-5)
5
Cost Value: (Does product provide enough bedding for the cost of what you pay per package? 0-5)
5

Did not want to private e-mail. I am at work.

_________________
Tammy and the gang
Guys: Rufus, Raffles, Roo, Rugby, Ruger
At the bridge: Zorro and Rudy

Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:50 pm

Type: Aspen
Biodegradable: No
Flushable: No
Scented: Natural
Shape: Some come in square chips some are thin shredded
Colour: Yellow
Dust: 4
Comfort: 5
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 4
Tracking: 3
Absorbency: 4
Overall Safety: 4 (Can carry bugs)
Cost Value: 5
---------------------------------
Type: Hemp Bedding
Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable:
Scented: Natural, a bit strong I think but others can't smell it Shrug

Shape: Thin shredded
Colour: Yellow
Dust: 4
Comfort: 5
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 3.5
Tracking: 3
Absorbency: 4
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 4
-----------------------------
Type: Kaytee Soft-Sorbent (recycled paper)
Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: Sure
Scented: No
Shape: Small balls
Colour: Grayish
Dust: 1
Comfort: 5
Odor Control: 5
Longevity: 5
Tracking: 2
Absorbency: 5
Overall Safety: 3 (Great except for being insanely dusty Sad

)
Cost Value: 5

_________________
--;[Dannie/]
Ratties: Kina, Cessi, Nerissa and Dare

Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:56 am

Thanks so much you two, keep em coming! =)

_________________
"If you won't rescue, don't breed"

Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:23 am

Type: Cell-Sorb Plus
Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: Yes
Scented: No
Shape: paper pelet
Colour: Grey
Dust: 5
Comfort: 4
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 4
Tracking: 5
Absorbency: 4
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 3

Type: Yesterdays News
Biodegradable: n/a
Flushable: Yes
Scented: No
Shape: paper pelet
Colour: Grey
Dust: 4
Comfort: 3.5
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 4
Tracking: 5
Absorbency: 4
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 5

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:55 am

Type: Yesterday's News (recycled paper bedding)
Biodegradable: yes
Flushable: Apparently, yes. I have never been in a position to flush it, however.
Scented: I buy unscented so as not to irritate anyone's lungs.
Shape: thin, short tubes (paper pellets).
Colour: grey
Dust: 4.5 (not dusty at all)
Comfort: 3.5
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 5
Tracking: No tracking. Unless Lenore decides to put some on her head and come out of the cage with it.
Absorbency: 4.5
Overall Safety: 4.5 I suppose some rats would eat more of it than they should initially if you were to do a bedding switch.
Cost Value: 5, for sure. It controls odor much more effectively than CareFresh and costs less, too.

_________________
Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:08 pm

Type: Aspen

Biodegradable: Well, it's wood, so compostable at least
Flushable: ?
Scented: Natural
Shape: chips or shredded, though shredded is softest
Colour: hay/natural
Dust: 4
Comfort: 4
Odor Control: 3
Longevity: 3
Tracking: 5
Absorbency: 2
Overall Safety: 4
Cost Value: 5
---------------------------------
Type: LifeMate Hemp Bedding

Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: ?
Scented: Natural, sort of like aspen but sweeter
Shape: shredded
Colour: hay/natural
Dust: 4
Comfort: 5
Odor Control: 3
Longevity: 3
Tracking: 4
Absorbency: 3
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 4
-----------------------------
Type: Kaytee Small Animal Cage Litter Yuck

Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: ?
Scented: No
Shape: small beads
Colour: Grey
Dust: 0 The MOST DUSTY stuff on the planet, they should ban sellng it
Comfort: 1 (kinda stiff)
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 3
Tracking: 0 (gets everywhere)
Absorbency: 3
Overall Safety: 0 Never buy it, worst stuff ever!
Cost Value: 4
-----------------------------
Type: CareFresh Ultra :royalty:
Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: Yes
Scented: No
Shape: little fluffy clouds
Colour: white
Dust: 5
Comfort: 5+ (so soft!)
Odor Control: 4
Longevity: 5
Tracking: 5
Absorbency: 4
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 2.5 (but worth every penny)
-----------------------------
Type: Small Pet ECO-Bedding :royalty: (But only good for bedding -- actually, great for bedding -- NOT litter.)
Biodegradable: Yes
Flushable: ?
Scented: No
Shape: tiny crinkled paper thingies
Colour: paper bag
Dust: 5
Comfort: 5
Odor Control: 2
Longevity: 5
Tracking: 2
Absorbency: 1
Overall Safety: 5
Cost Value: 5+

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:47 am

On another website, I read that ground walnut shells are good to use in litter boxes. I was wondering if this is true, or if it had the same problems that clay cat litter has?

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:02 am

Well I don't think walnut shells would clump, like clay cat litters. That's the main problem with those - if the rat consumes some, and it clumps in their insides, it could cause an obstruction. But other than that, I've not really got any real info on it.

Edit: Debbie "The Rat Lady" Ducommun reckons that it's ok to use, if a bit messy, in her article on the dangers of pine and cedar shavings. Shrug

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:37 am

All right. I am not gonna use them until I can find someone who knows for sure about them. I can always use something else in litter boxes.

I checked out that article, and but I think I will still wait.

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:50 am

I 3was wonderin if i could use cat litter for my rats bedding. if i can it would be alot easier and cheaper because all i would have to do is take out the clumps and add a little more. thanks lots!!!!

mE

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:12 am

You can use some cat litters, but I'm not sure about clumping litter. I know some people use paper based litter, but not clay based.

_________________

Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:14 am

Don't use clumping litter, if a rat happens to ingest any it can cause problems. Also, some litters are dusty, and the scented types can irritate ratty sinuses. I'm sure there are some out there that are safe, just be sure to thoroughly check it out first.

_________________
--Brittany

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom."

Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:20 am

No - clumping cat litter is a no-no because it can cause a blockage in their guts if they eat it.

Take a look at the sticky on litters for some good ideas on suitable litters you can use with them.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:26 pm

Just a question, could I use the Yesterday's News cat litter instead of the small animal bedding? The bedding is 15.00 for 20 lbs. and the litter is 11.00 for 30lbs.

_________________

Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:54 pm

Read back through this sticky thread, there is plenty of info on Yesterday's News.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:03 pm

After a few attempts at finding a not so dusty bedding that will stop causing respiratory problem flare-ups, I've decided to give Yesterday's News a try. I've heard quite a few people recommend it on this site, but say that it is a bit hard for the footsies. Would paper towel be safe to throw in there (as a "soft" material)? Could I let my rat shred it up or should I? He seems to like ripping apart toilet paper rolls and putting them in his bedding space.
And also, should I transition to the new bedding by mixing the current (carefresh ultra) with the new?

Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:08 pm

I don't think you'd need a transition period unless your rats are insanely picky. I switched my girls from Aspen to Yesterday's News no problem.

I use paper towel in the girls' houses/sleeping spots because it's easier for me to change and, I don't think, smells nearly as rank as cloth when peed on. Shrug

I just stick a couple sheets in various spots on the cage and let the girls go searching. Usually one will pull the paper towel through one bar and another rattie will pull through another. LOL

Eventually one gives up and the other runs away with the prize for her nestbox.

_________________
--;[Dannie/]
Ratties: Kina, Cessi, Nerissa and Dare

Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:37 pm

Cool. I'll try it. My only concern was if switching over suddenly would make his current upper respitory tract infection more irritated. But if it is supposedly less dusty . . . ?

Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:01 pm

A litter change shouldn't stress him that much. wink

	Quote:
	But if it is supposedly less dusty

It's definately better than most litters I've used available for small animals.

_________________
--;[Dannie/]
Ratties: Kina, Cessi, Nerissa and Dare