NUTRITION: Food/Diets/Treats/Etc.

Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:02 am

I don't think it would be too much protein, although that mix does have a lot of nuts and seeds in it, which are relatively high in protein and fat. How much of the cereal to the nut/fruit mix do you use?

Some rats are sensitive to things in their diet, and I'm not sure how high a quality that dog kibble is. How are the other rats? Do they have any problems? How is his fur overall?

Edit: OK, so perhaps that dog kibble isn't a great one to use. Can you choose a higher quality brand, even if it's a little higher in protein?

I try and give fresh food every day, which is a combination of most things I eat.

Sometimes scabs can be down to excessive grooming or little nips from arguments as well, so it may not be a dietary problem. Why did the vet feel it wasn't mites?

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:38 am

The other two don't have it. They aren't even itchy or anything. It's only on his jawbone and a little on his cheek. I think it may be excessive grooming.

His fur has gotten thinner over the past two weeks, but not so much that he has bald spots. I was looking just now and noticed that it looks a little thinner. I can't believe I didn't notice sooner. It's not bad, but I should have noticed. I guess I've just been preoccupied with Chester.

I usually use 2/3 cereal and 1/3 fruit/nut mix. I use to give them fresh food everyday but they had diarrea so I switched to every other day.

Would Beniful be a good kibble? That's really the only other one I was looking at. I was thinking about organic dog food, but the only kind around here that isn't ridiculously expensive, they didn't like!

I really didn't know it was that bad! I feel horrible for making my boys eat that. I'm going tonight to get them some better food. My poor babies.

He looked at him and got a few of his hairs and took them back and when he came back he said there were no mites or fleas. He isn't my regular vet but I couldn't get an appointment there until next week and I wouldn't have a ride.

_________________
Rats:
The boys:
Chester (PEW hairless), Kye (Black mismarked hooded), Scout (agouti), Reminder (Beige)

Tapioca(Beige hooded) RIP my big squishy boy...Play hard at the Rainbow Bridge.

Sun Oct 23, 2005 4:54 am

nope, beniful is almost as bad. there really isn't anything decent you can buy at wallyworld. myself, i use chicken soup for the soul. i get it at my local feed store. it's higher in protien (about 21%) but i leave out the sunflower seeds. personally, i would rather feed a higher protien, good quality food than a crap food loaded with preservitives and chemicals and such they can't use. i use to have a "rating scale" for dog foods, something you could look at to help you choose a good quality food. i'll see if i can dig it up for you.

eta: i know dogs and rats have different nutritional needs, but a good quality food is still a good quality food!

_________________

i miss you dove, oz, briar and fern. liam, my love, i 'll never forget you.

Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:17 am

hmm...well Brandi doesn't get home till 10 and everything is closed then. I'd have to wait till her day off. They sell chicken soup stuff at superpets I think. Do you think they'll be okay for a few more days?

_________________
Rats:
The boys:
Chester (PEW hairless), Kye (Black mismarked hooded), Scout (agouti), Reminder (Beige)

Tapioca(Beige hooded) RIP my big squishy boy...Play hard at the Rainbow Bridge.

Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:17 am

here it is..... a pretty good guideline for picking a decent dog food.

Start with a grade of 100:
For every listing of "by-product", subtract 10 points

For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points

For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 5 points

If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 5 points

If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first five ingredients (i.e. "ground brown rice", "brewer’s rice", "rice flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points

If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points

If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3 points

If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points

If the food contains any animal fat, subtract 2 points

If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog isn’t allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points

If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points

If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit:

If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points

If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, add 5 points

If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points

If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points

If the food contains fruit, add 3 points

If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 points

If the food contains barley, add 2 points

If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 points

If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point

If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point

For every different specific animal protein source (other than the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein source, but "chicken" and "turkey" as 2 different sources; do not count eggs), add 1 point

If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point

94-100+ = A
86-93 = B
78-85 = C
70-77 = D
<70 + F

This is meant as a guideline only. If your dog is currently on a food that meets his or her needs, then that's the important thing! But if you're looking for a change, this gives a way of evaluating different foods on the same scale. And, some of these criteria are based on allergens (wheat, corn, and soy); if your dog is not allergic to these items, you don't have to consider that criterion. i believe corn should still remain a factor even if your dog does not have allergies to it, however, because corn is not digestible to any animal and is really nothing but a cheap filler. But if your dog has no allergies to corn (skin problems, foot licking or biting, hot spots can be signs of grain allergy), then feel free to reduce the impact of that ingredient.

Here's how some major popular foods rated:

Eagle Pack Holistic: 119
Wellness Super5Mix Chicken: 117
Chicken Soup for the Adult Dog Lover's Soul: 109
Canidae: 100
Eagle Pack Natural: 94
Eagle Pack Large and Giant Breed Puppy: 94
Flint River Ranch: 92 (non-specific fat source)
Nutro Chicken, Rice, & Oatmeal: 85 (non-specific fat source)
Eukanuba Large Breed Adult: 83
Iams Large Breed: 83
Science Diet Large Breed: 68
Pro Plan All Breed: 68
Pedigree Complete Nutrition: 42

_________________

i miss you dove, oz, briar and fern. liam, my love, i 'll never forget you.

Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:56 am

If the vet only took hairs, then that's unlikely to show up mites - you would probably need to do a skin scraping and even that can give false negatives. It might be worth looking into again, just to be sure.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:13 pm

I was going to originally put this in the health/care/behavior section itself, rather than the sticky, but I just read WolvesRaven's post about scabs on the chin which sound very similar to what I just noticed on Bike last night. (If it needs to be moved, I apologize) He has a semi-large scab under his chin, with a triangular patch of shortened or missing fur, and two smaller scabs - one above and one below.

I have him on Mazuri lab blocks along with fruits and veggies (I've recently been looking into making a batch of Suebees). Are protein scabs typically found on the chin? Or does it seem more characteristic of mites? Is it something I can put neosporin on and monitor? Or should I make an appointment to the vet right away?

Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:54 pm

Either... scabs are basically where the skin has broken from scratching in both cases, and often they will be seen in greater number around the chin, head and neck. However, I'd get the vet to check him out for mites first and foremost as mites are probably more common than diet sensitivities. It's not a "must check immediately" kind of thing, but it is something to get a non-urgent appointment for. Have you noticed him itching more than usual?

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:01 pm

No. Same amount of scratching. I'll watch him more closely today, as I had to work yesterday and last night was when I noticed it. I tried to see if he was scratching more under his chin as well, but he didn't seem to be. Oh little boy - there goes this week's paycheck. LOL

Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:38 pm

Just for some more information on BHA and BHT, check these links:

http://diet-studies.com/stokes.html
http://www.feingold.org/bht.html
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Antioxidants/BHA-BHT.htm

I have also, from reading, seen references to foods that use BHA/BHT being linked to hotspots in dogs (although much of that is anecdotal reporting and technically could be associated with other problems such as lower quality food etc).

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:12 am

Has anyone tried Hill's Science Diet Senior dog food for their ratties? Thats what I give my ratties as part of their diet, and was wondering if its a good food for them. The protein is 16%

Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:07 pm

have any of you tried giving dried cat food as treats to your rats. I recieved two sample packages of Nutro gourmet dried cat food (chicken flavored! (no biproducts)), and I gave one pack to my cats and decieded i would see it my rats would like them. Well, they did! They beg and they love them wayyyy more than yoggies, and peanuts, which was their favorite for quite a while!
Since they have been getting Nutro a few times a day, I have notice that their fur is softer, and looks more healthy. I looked on the bag, and It says it helps the cats coat too! Nutro is a very healthy pet food supplier, and well, I wsa just wondering if any one else gives cat food to their rats?

_________________
Momma to...

4 rats~ Hoodsie, Lucy, Acadecki, and Linyaari
2 cats~ Tubby Todd and Na'Bisco
2 leopard geckos~ Luka and Jaffa
1 hammy~ Bijou

Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:00 pm

Is candy corn good as a sometimes-treat? I have two bagfulls of the stuff, the regular kind, the chocolate flavored ones and the little pumpkins. I don't think they're any different nutritionally.

Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:12 pm

Candy corn is pretty much just sugar. You can give it to them but I would only do so in small pieces and not more than once a week. It's just junk, but ratties love junk. Mr. Green

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:25 am

Wow! I made it through all 24 pages. WooHoo!

<----- Heh, love this little guy!

I gotta say, most of your rats eat better than I do! I'm going to have to improve my diet just to feed my rat healthy stuff! This is a good thing, lol.

I have a few questions.

1) Dog food vs. lab blocks. From reading this thread, it seems that dog food alone is too high in protien, and needs to be mixed 50/50 with Suebees mix or equivalent for proper nutrition. Lab blocks however are complete and balanced by themselvs. Suebees site(and many of the members here) say "Either dog food or lab blocks mixed 50/50 with Suebees mix."
-so-
If Suebees mix "dilutes" the dog food down to healthy protien levels, then wouldn't lab blocks(which start out already balanced) get "diluted" down as well, and end up not providing enough protien? ScratchHead

Just curious.

2) I'm thinking that a good quality lab block, plus daily treats/fresh stuff, sounds like an easy and healthy way to go. Yes? If I go this route, is there an item or two from the Suebee mix that would really help round out the blocks, like the Total cereal for the vitamins?

3)Quantity. I can't quite get a feel for how much food this little fur person can eat. I worry that if I give her too many treats, she'll be too full to eat her "regular" food. Example, for breakfast I'll give her a 1" x 1" corner of bread with penutbutter and honey on it. Yum

Is she done for half the day? Or will she get the munchies in an hour, and be downstairs nibbling on a lab block? She loves yogurt! I peel the lid off on of those little 8oz containers and give that to her *lick lick lick lick lick* maybe half a teaspoon on it. Is that dinner, or just a light snack? Except for the yogurt lids, she usually runs off and hides to eat.So I can't tell if she eats it all, or stashes some.

Last thing, there are two brand names I'd like to toss out here. I haven't heard them mentioned, and I'm curious of peoples opinions on them. The first is Zupreem lab blocks. That is what I have now, my freind is going to bring me the nutritional info and I'll post it up when I get it. If at all questionable, I'll get the Harlan blocks.
The other one is the food that Rita rat came with, what I have been feeding her(plus other stuff, including Innova). It's Volkmans Rat & Mouse Menu. A picture and contents list can be found here---->http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=9072 I'm not planning on using it anymore, just wondered if it was any better than the usual "rodent mixes" that get a bad rap on here.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for helping out a rattie noob. Mr. Green

Dave and Rita rat

P.S. Rita was an abandoned rat, and full grown when I got her 5 months ago. She has put on a touch of weight in that time, and is is now just a little bit squishy, but not much.

Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:27 am

Congratulations on making it through! Mr. Green

We do try and keep the stickies trimmed but they keep growing. We are working on it though. wink

1) Good point! As you pointed out, the main problem with the dog kibble is that, alone, it has too much protein (and so throws out the balance of other nutrients as well). Originally, Suebee's was designed as an alternative for people who couldn't get hold of good lab blocks but provided a better alternative to store bought grain mixes alone. Later, people began substituting lab blocks into the grain mix because it was the "best of both worlds" in that the lab blocks ensured that the rats got access to all the nutrients they needed, but had some variety in taste and texture rather than a homogenous lab block (although they should have fresh food, this isn't usually available all day).

So yes, technically the protein will be lower, but it shouldn't ever be low enough to cause harm. Rats need around 12-15% protein in their daily diet (though more is recommended during growth, pregnancy, nursing etc), and most of the lab blocks contain more than this. The two most common blocks from Harlan, for example, contain 24% or 18% - so these, even when combined with the grain, will still provide enough protein for most rats, and it's also easy enough to offer some higher protein/energy foods for rats that need more for whatever reason. By keeping protein levels around that figure, you minimise the chance of protein sensitivity, but the protein levels are still consistant with good health levels.

2) Going with 80% lab blocks and 20% fresh foods (or 80/20 Suebee's/Fresh) is generally the recommended ratio - and yes, it's perfectly fine to give good quality lab blocks without the grain mix. It's a personal (and rat) choice as some rats don't like lab blocks, some people prefer to offer a variety of things to eat rather than the same thing consistantly. But if you want to use lab blocks alone, with fresh suppliments, then that's ok as long as you're using a good lab block (such as the Harlan, Oxbow or Mazuri blocks). The blocks should provide all of the nutrients that the rat will need, so you shouldn't have to give anything specifically from the Suebee's mix to ensure they have a good diet. You can, of course, offer anything from the mix as a treat or occasional suppliment. Things like a bit of cereal often goes down well, mixed up oatmeal is a firm favourite and also helps put on some weight if you need extra for a particular rat, and the dry pasta is great for keeping teeth trimmed. So nothing specifically is necessary - but if you want to regularly offer any of it, perhaps just take it in turns to offer different things. With things that are highly vitamin supplimented, you may want to consider just offering the odd flake or two as a treat to make sure you don't overdo the vitamins (some are toxic at too high a dose).

3) How much do they eat? Well, a rat needs around 5g of food for every 100g of body weight. So your Rita is probably somewhere between 300 and 400g (maybe a little more - and a bit of squish is ok, though too much has the same risks as with humans wink

). That would mean she probably needs something like 20g of food a day. But in all honesty, I don't weigh it out for mine, and I don't think most people do. Most people tend to free feed their staple (be it Suebee's or lab blocks etc) and give them a meal or two of fresh stuff. It tends to be a case of trial and error to work out how much they eat in a day, and try to provide just that amount. That way, they always have fresh mix in their bowl every day. As long as you try and make it so that she's getting 4 parts blocks/mix and 1 part fresh food, then that's fine.

The peanut butter - keep as a treat, much as she loves it (especially with bread and honey!) it's very fatty. I think that giving her that should really count as her "rare treat" and then the rest of the fresh stuff you give her (which can include the yoghurt, preferably live and natural) is healthy goodness like fruit, veg, etc, then she'll be fine.

Re: those brands. Zupreem blocks - These aren't, I don't think, designed for rats specifically. I know they do reptile, ferret, exotic cats, primates etc. (see here) but alone I don't know that they're recommended. I know some people will use the bird products in a home made mix though. So if you're going for a block/fresh combo, I'd say Harlan is probably better, but I can't say for sure.

The Volkmans, just from looking at it, I'd say is all wrong - it looks like half of it is sunflower seeds and dried corn, and so I'd say no to that. Looks like there's perhaps peanuts as well?

There are some shop grain mixes that aren't so bad (I can think of a couple that are ok to use as long as they're not the sole food from a UK perspective) but many of them are inappropriate (such as seeds and nuts, too high in protein and fat), contain too much dried corn (not a great source of nutrition as the main component, and potentially harmful according to some research), contain small seeds and/or alfalfa pellets which are generally left behind (so the mix is wasteful) - when I've used mixes in the past, I've always found that I had to throw away around 20-25% of the bowl because it was small seeds and alfalfa pellets that they refused to eat. In addition, some of the mixes are coloured or have a number of preservatives or additives that may cause sensitivities (one of mine itched like crazy from colourants) and it's basically like living on junk food or ready meals - it'll keep you going, but the fat, salt, additives and so on just won't be good for you long term.

Hope that helps.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:59 am

Went shopping last night for all the ingredients for a rat food mix for when I get my newbies on Sunday. I had always previously fed the bog stock rat food from pet shops but this time I want to do the proper mix of oats, pasta, cereral etc etc. The list I have got says use Alpha Herbal rabbit food, but Pets At Home don't stock it - argh! My list also says I can use PaH Rat Museli as a substitute, but in the past my girls always picked out bits and left loads, including the "kibbly" biscuit bits.

I wasn't sure whether to buy any old other rabbit food as a substitute, as I don't know what the protein levels should be. Is PaH standard rabbit mix OK to use? It has 13% protein count. If it's OK to use this or the Rat Museli then I'm gathering there will be no need to add the extra dog kibble for more protein?

Also is it OK to use standard breakfast museli in the mix too?

And finally why don't PaH put the same ingredients into their rat food as they do their rabbit food, if the rabbit food is ultimately the best thing for them!!!

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:40 pm

You have to be careful with the rabbit foods - if you can't find the Alpha herbal locally, I believe you can order it online if you can't find it locally - maybe try independent pet stores? Alison from Shunamite Rats may be able to help you more, if you contact her about alternatives that aren't on the list. The rat muesli is suggested as an alternative though, so should be ok to use instead of it. You could also add part muesli and part nuggets...

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:12 pm

Someone said that the muselie may have too much sugar but I'm sure it'd be OK added sparingly?

Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:24 pm

OK - rat muesli (as in, the P@H mix) is fine to use. Human muesli can be high in sugar indeed, and so you may want to add less of it compared to other cereals, or to search out a variety with low sugar, or no added sugar. Basically, find the things that are as low as possible in sugar and salt and processing. I've found Kashi in the UK (original, not honey, is best), Cheerios are firm favourites but have a surprising amount of sugar and salt so I normally limit those, and if you go to somewhere like a big supermarket or Holland & Barrett or Julian Greaves, you can find all the makings of muesli (like oats, nuts, dried fruit etc) and add them separately, or pick up one of their natural no added sugar type things.

Look for things like the wheat flakes, shredded wheat (you can either break up big ones, or just get the mini ones), puffed rice (not rice crispies - they're made from rice flour and lots of added sugar and salt), and so on.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:12 am

I use Bob's Red Mills Museli, which is human muesli, but it does not add extra sugar.
Is it okay?

_________________
Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:18 am

Should be fine.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:21 am

Is dried pasta ok for rats Confused

peapod

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:25 am

Well i know my Ratties luv cooked pasta with a little sauce....smile

_________________
Rosie Ginger Gypsy Bambie Beatrice Cassie Kira Shapelle Shelley kath Kim Corby Chloe kimmies bubs: Leelee Lilly Molly Morgan Jassie Jayjay Tess n Tammy
Roxy 30/06/2004 to 28/11/2005 Relaxing on the banks of the river at Rainbow Bridge

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:30 am

Considering dry pasta is in Suebee's mix, I think that it's fine. wink

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Last edited by amazing_rat on Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:31 pm

Hey quick food question....smile

on a really hot day....i give my girls frozen fruit and vegies....and i mean still frozen....they seem to love it...

it wouldnt hurt to give them frozen stuff would it???

im sure they thaw it out in their mouth....they also have icecream occassionally

Deb

_________________
Rosie Ginger Gypsy Bambie Beatrice Cassie Kira Shapelle Shelley kath Kim Corby Chloe kimmies bubs: Leelee Lilly Molly Morgan Jassie Jayjay Tess n Tammy
Roxy 30/06/2004 to 28/11/2005 Relaxing on the banks of the river at Rainbow Bridge

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:48 pm

It's fine to do, read back through this sticky and you'll see that.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:00 am

I have been feeding my rats and mice Small World mouse and rat food. But since it has corn in it I think I should switch. And all the food at the pet store has corn it wtf

besides the lab blocks which seem kind of boring and not very tasty Confused

. So any suggestions on a food that would be suitable for mice and rats?

_________________
2 rats ~Pheona~Clover~
4 Bunnies~Twinkletoes~Honeybee~Honeybunny~Marlo
2 Mice~Bovine~Roo~
2 Ducks~Hara~Bazil~

www.freewebs.com/ratsitter

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:03 am

I feed my babies suebees supplemented w/ lab blocks. Here's the recipe: http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

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*Oliver & Dodger*

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:06 am

Are'nt you not supposed to feed your rat dried fruit though becuase they could choke on it. And how much do all the ingredients cost?

_________________
2 rats ~Pheona~Clover~
4 Bunnies~Twinkletoes~Honeybee~Honeybunny~Marlo
2 Mice~Bovine~Roo~
2 Ducks~Hara~Bazil~

www.freewebs.com/ratsitter

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:12 am

I've never heard of them choking on dried fruit but I'll check into that.

It depends on where you buy the ingredients but I think it was $10-$15. It makes a LOT of mix though - I don't have a big enough bowl so I mix it all in a garbage bag and then put it into bowls. It usually lasts almost a couple of months (depending on how many ratties you have).

_________________
*Oliver & Dodger*

Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:06 am

I also feed my ratties Suebees. It is really not expensive and the good thing is that if you have a dollar store around where you live, some of the things can be bought there like the pasta and some of the cereal even some of the dried fruit. The great thing is you can make alittle or alot of it depending on how many ratties you have.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:39 am

I feed my girls lab blocks supplemented by fruits, carrots, and the occasional chicken bone with some meat left on it.

_________________
-Ben
My rats: Squishy, Squee, and Nibbler
My dogs (at my mother's house): Lucy and Ricky
My cats (at my dad's house--in Florida!): Cleo (RIP) and Zima

Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:00 am

Okay you guys thank you! I think Ill make some Suebees's mix for them when I get the chance to go to the supermarket. It actaully sounds cheaper then the stuff that I am giving them now!

_________________
2 rats ~Pheona~Clover~
4 Bunnies~Twinkletoes~Honeybee~Honeybunny~Marlo
2 Mice~Bovine~Roo~
2 Ducks~Hara~Bazil~

www.freewebs.com/ratsitter

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:01 am

it is much cheaper, and much more healthy! My ratties love dried fruits! I have never had any of them choke.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:04 am

My rats get 95% lab blocks.

That is their staple diet. Then if we do have something in the house that we have we will get them a treat of veggies, pasta, etc.

But my rats are very happy eating just their lab blocks... and feeding them even though they may seem 'boring' is far more healthy that those seed mixes that they sell!!

(If you have the inclination to make the Suebees mix then go for it though, I just don't have the extra time or money to do that... and my ratties love their lab blocks.)

_________________
Lise...

& Molly, Nora, and Tevy

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:43 am

I think it's completely valid to feed only a high quality lab block (with fresh foods, of course). I feel like I feed them the grain mix for me. Of course, they love parts of it a lot, and it does give them variety, but they eat their blocks as fast as they eat the mix, so they're obviously happy with either one. But I really like making up their mix myself, and it makes me feel like I can control the quality of what they're eating.

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Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:50 am

Ok....just home from store.
I did find lab blocks. At the grocery store I got all kind of goodies

How many lab blocks does 1 rat eat per day?
How much mix do I offer? What types of food dishes?

ETA: Cool....I just realized I bought good lab blocks by Teklad

I hope their bedding is good....thats what I bought.

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:12 am

"Sticky foods such as Peanut Butter, some Candy, and Dried Fruits - poses a choking hazard. Peanut butter can be "cut" with jam or honey to make it more liquid, and reduce the possibility of choking."

It says that dried fruits causes a choking hazard. Confused

Maybe ill just use dried bananas

_________________
2 rats ~Pheona~Clover~
4 Bunnies~Twinkletoes~Honeybee~Honeybunny~Marlo
2 Mice~Bovine~Roo~
2 Ducks~Hara~Bazil~

www.freewebs.com/ratsitter

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:42 am

High quality lab block (Harlan Teklad 2016 - 16% protein) - you can get it through a local rat group or purchase it directly from Kim's Ark or another rescue organization. Fresh fruits and veggies (as well as dried - all organic). Tonight the kids got pasta and momma's made from scratch spagetti sauce with broccoli, carrots, pears and some live-culture yogurt. Followed by stolen Cheez-Its from mom...again. Little brats. LOL

_________________

Shadow Brook Rodentry

Bridge Ratties: Samson, Wraith, Aiko, Kasper - I <3 you & miss you.

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:11 pm

just going back to the first post in this thread.....CORN

is there a problem feeding ratties corn???

my girls eat it all the time....corn on the cob....corn in rattie mix......frozen corn

_________________
Rosie Ginger Gypsy Bambie Beatrice Cassie Kira Shapelle Shelley kath Kim Corby Chloe kimmies bubs: Leelee Lilly Molly Morgan Jassie Jayjay Tess n Tammy
Roxy 30/06/2004 to 28/11/2005 Relaxing on the banks of the river at Rainbow Bridge

Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:34 am

No lotsarats I was talking about dried corn... my ratties love corn on the cob to. Mr. Green

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2 rats ~Pheona~Clover~
4 Bunnies~Twinkletoes~Honeybee~Honeybunny~Marlo
2 Mice~Bovine~Roo~
2 Ducks~Hara~Bazil~

www.freewebs.com/ratsitter

Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:54 am

I had seven rats when I last had rats so I always had a big bucket in the kitchen. But when I first started keeping rats I never had over four at once. I never even premixed a mix then. I would take their bowls into the kitchen and just grab a bit of this, a bit of that. As long as you get sufficient variety in there and keep your mind toward generally hitting all nutritional points over all, there is no need to make sure that they get ALL of their nutrients EVERY night.

Besides, it was lots of fun, sharing my own meals with them! Mr. Green

Oh and in response to our Australian friend, I don't think there is anything explicitly wrong with corn, only that it is lower in nutrients than rice, and wheat and other grains. It's like a human eating squishy white wonder bread. It won't harm you, but it displaces more healthful things.

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Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:18 am

Off Topic: I just wanted to say that I went to get more supplies for Suebees mix and finally found unsalted, unroasted soy beans! yay! WooHoo!

But then i got home and realized I needed to roast them myself. Fine. But then I realized I had to soak them for 12 hours first. Fine. 2 over-flowing bowls later (they swell to about 3times their size) i pre-heated the oven only to realize that 2 of my 5 pans are too big for my oven! Shocked

So then I had to spread them out onto only three sheets (as IF i was going to do 3 or 4 bathches!!??) So for one hour the noxious smell of roasting soybeans Puke

(some of you may love it-to me it smelled nasty!) filled the apartment, only to be overwhelmed by the smell of smoke as the bottom beans burned and the top ones were still raw. Rant

So I removed the burnt beans, stirred them up and let them roast a bit longer. So now the 13 hour process (`12 hours soaking and 1 baking) turned into 14!!?? because my stupid layer of beans was 2" thick!! Evil or Very Mad

Finally, they were done (still not as crunchy as the store-bought flavored ones) but cooked nonetheless. So then an hour to cool. Fine. At least they like them!! i think next time though, I will buy the roasted ones with salt (I can't find unsalted roasted ones here in Vancouver, Canada) and just not give them as many.

The good thing is now I have a huge amount of raosted beans to add to my future Suebeee's mixes. To sum it up:
1) don't buy too many-the darn things swell to 3 x their size!
2) after 12 hours of soaking to get them to 3x their size, you bake them and they shrink back to 2x their size
3) put them in ONE layer on the baking sheet
4) open the windows
5) make sure your rats like them before doing all this! LOL

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:35 am

As for corn, I know that dried corn is susceptable to mold, and that that is a concern with feeding dried corn. Rats have a lot of difficulty with mold, which is also why you cannot feed them moldy cheeses, etc.

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Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:46 am

Hey all,

My girlies have recently seemed bored with their lab block. They've been on the same formula, Harlan #8604, for probably a year now. At first, they were thrilled, but I guess if you ate the same thing for a year, you'd get sick of it, too.

Since I'm 15 and don't do the shopping for my family, I feel odd asking my mom to pick up a bunch of different cereals solely for rats when I can order lab block from Kim's Ark. She doesn't mind it (she likes to tell strangers about the rats and how she buys them granola and how they eat better than most people she knows), but I don't want to inconvenience her too much.

My question is, do you think that switching from the 8604 to the 2018 and a modified Suebees would help with the diminished rattie appitites? I just hate to see them not eating much, especially when they've always been so zealous about consumption.

Thanks in advance.

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Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:30 am

It could do - but also bear in mind that they might just be eating a bit less as they get older - full grown ratties aren't growing like weeds any more, and they often slow down a bit as well instead of constantly running round like maniacs - so they might be eating a little less because of that. However, if you want to vary their diet, you can stick with the lab blocks, as always, and simply offer them extended meals if you don't want to go on an all-out Suebee's mix. As long as they're getting a decent supply of lab blocks, then you can make some variations with the grain part - because you aren't as dependent on the grains etc to provide all of the nutrients to the rat as you are with a conventional Suebee's diet.

If they've suddenly stopped eating a lot, then it might be worth double checking there's not something else that's bothering them, or any health issues - but it could just be that they don't need as much energy as little rats (who seem to do nothing but sleep, eat, poop and popcorn).

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:32 pm

Thanks Andy, I think I'll probably go with a new block formula and modified Suebee's grain mix. Mr. Green

The girlies have been slowing down their eating for the last few months, so I really do think it must be their age. Heh, it's just startling going from rittens eating their weight and more in block to uninterested, sleepy adults. My girls are growing up fast.

I'm fairly certain nothing's bothering them except a lack of variety - I mixed some block in with cereals last night and that seemed to do the trick. They're just spoiled.

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Cera (Sarah) and The Girlies:
Grace and Lenore

Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:53 pm

The pet sroe i go to ( big rat lovers in there) saied dried rabbit food it better.and my rats are not complaining. it has a little bit of corn, pumpkin & sunflower seeds, little pieces of dry stuff, and a small amount of pellets. the rat food i used to give tehm, they didn't act like tehy really liked it, but they really like this stuff. I have been fedding them this for about a week now.
My Dry Rabit Food Has........
15% protein
4% Fat
15 % Fiber

Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:01 pm

opps srry for teh mis-type, but can rats eat oranges?

Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:54 am

Females rats can eat oranges and OJ fine, but with males it's a different story. There is d-limonene in the peel, which studies have shown increases the risk of cancer in male rats. So, no OJ and only give them pieces if you wash them very well beforehand, though I'm still cautious.

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Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:20 am

Aye - and the D-limonene is also found in other citrus fruit, so it's worth considering that when dealing with lemons, grapefruit etc.

Re: the rabbit food - alone, it's probably highly unsuitable, whether they like it or not. Rabbits are herbivores, for a start, while rats are omnivores. Although they can live on a balanced vegetarian diet, they're not designed to do so, and you have to ensure that they get all the relevant proteins. Rabbits, on the other hand, are designed to live on vegetable matter with no animal protein. It's not simply a case of the base figures either, but vitamins, minerals, the quality of the components and food sources and so on.

There are a few rabbit foods in the UK that can be used as part of a home-mixed diet, but certainly they're highly unlikely to provide proper nutrition without balancing that with other items, even if it is tasty. It would be like living on french fries and burgers.

If you still want to give them a mixed diet, then you can go for a staple block product (the good ones are balanced for rat nutritional needs and contain good food sources) and provide a mix of other grains and pasta, for example, to give some variety. Try to provide them with some fresh foods each day (be that cooked noodles, cooked chicken bones, a little meat or fish, bread, veg etc) for both variety and health.

There are a number of diets out there (including Debbie D's, the Shunamite diet, and a whole host of others listed on Ratguide.com) but the most popular diet seems to be one based around Suebee's - dog kibble/lab blocks + grain/pasta mix fed freely with fresh foods making up around 20% of the diet.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:03 am

I live in Canada so maybe I could recommend some food that is easy to find that I feed my rats

-LivingWorld Premium Nutriblocks..this is the main part of their diet..it comes in a small blue bag..PetValue carries it..most petstores do
-Puppy food..I ust Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice..but I don't give them too much..maybe 10 pieces
-Unsalted soybeans..I found these in the bulk section at Safeway..the rats love them..but again I only give them a few each
-Raisins..I give them 3 each
-Vitakraft Carrot Slims...they are fairly big so each rat gets only 1
-Vitakraft Yogurt Drops (the ones that say for hamsters) my rats like the strawberry ones but these are only treats..1 a day is enough..but sometimes they get more

*LivingWorld also makes these
-LivingWorld Triangles...i found these at Zellers for a reasonable price..they get 2 each..kinda similar to nutriblocks but not as much nutrients..but the rats love chewing them
-Seed mix...you can find this anywhere it has sunflower seeds,corn and some other seeds BUT you have to make sure to remove the corn..unless you can find a mix without it..dry corn is not good for rats because it can contain mold...I mix in some oats and Grape-Nuts cereal with the seed mix..but don't give them lots of the mix..I just give them a small handful

Also a nice piece of fresh fruit each day makes the rats happy..mine love bananas and apples

Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:27 am

Well I got a new food called Fiesta by KAYTEE and it is awsome ,here is some stuff about it!
Protein-15%
Fat-7%
Fiber-12%
It has pumpkin,sunflower seeds and some corn. de-hydrated soybean,banna,apple,papaya,sweet potatoes, caroots,oats,green split peas.
It is really awsome.
SO is this good or not? I don't really wnt to MAKE mixed food i just want to buy one and then maybe mix it with another good rattie food.

Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:30 am

Oh yeah this rat food also hase raisins.

Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:50 am

Well, as I'm sure many people will agree, Kaytee is crap(are we allowed to say that here?) There are lots of icky preservatives and it's totally non-nutritous. Unfortunetly, there aren't that many good store-bought mixes. If you really want a store-bought food, try Mazuri lab blocks with fresh veggies every day. Mr. Green

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Last edited by amazing_rat on Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:14 am; edited 1 time in total

Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:54 am

Ditto what Sara said, as I said in the PM it may look tasty and everything but it is much too sweet, and its very unhealthy.

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EMILY-------------------------------------------------

Rest in peace, Violet and Isadora. <3

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:27 pm

I'm just wondering what treats everyone gives their rats, and what seems to be their rat's favorites?

I went and bought some Yogies, and two of my rats like them (they grab them and run and hide in their house to eat them) but my other one is pretty indifferent...he'll take a couple bites and then get bored and drop it. But when I'm eating cereal and he's on my shoulder I have to watch out, because theres been a few times where he actually jumps onto the rim of my bowl (I'm waiting for the day where he actually falls in) trying to get a corn flake. (I hope its okay that I've given him cereal..I generally just eat cornflakes or honey bunches of oats, nothing sugery and I only give him a little flake or two).

I gave all three of them little peices of banana, and they sat there in an almost comatose state eating them. Then when one finished before the other, a fight ensued, so I'm going to assume thats one favorite.

What about everyone else?

Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:47 pm

Have a read back through this thread, there are tons of great treat ideas here.

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Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:04 pm

Oh, I've started reading through this thread already...I wasnt really looking for ideas, just curious about different rats and their preferences...more of a rat personality question than looking for treat ideas. But thanks anyway, I'll keep reading through.

Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:42 am

My rats LOVE banana, tofu, yogies, and chicken noodle soup!! They also like cereal, especially Wheaties. So yeah, cereal is fine for them.

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EMILY-------------------------------------------------

Rest in peace, Violet and Isadora. <3

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:08 pm

ok so the fiesta thingy u got its ok. We ran out of the Sue Bees mix one time rite before we went on vacation and we got that cause that was the most healthy thing we could find. But i noticed that all they ate was the little vegtable chips and the fruit but they didn't eat the seeds. So i just ignored it for a little while thinking they'll get used to it. Then my little Midnight started getting scabs on her shoulders form all the protein in the seeds. So i went cold turkey on that mix and now i'm feeding them Kaytee blocks ( i kno no betta than the other food but the scabs have gone away, well almost). So i would not reccemd the Fiesta mix.

Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:15 pm

I would not feed anything made by Kaytee. All of there foods are unbalanced, and full of icky preservatives. One of them, Ethoxyquin has been shown to increase the chance of getting tumors, and its use is regulated for human food. If you don't want to mix your own food, I reccomend ordering Harlan Teklad lab blocks from Kims Ark (http://kimsarkrescue.org/ under "Ark Store").

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Rosie

* * *

I miss you Tut, Goldy, and Raoul Angel rat

Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:57 pm

I'm *only* on page 9 of this thread, so I apologize if this has been asked/answered already... but concerning the Harlan Teklad: how much should I provide my two female 6-week old rats? Just fill the bowl when it's empty, or just give them a few blocks per day? We also give them fresh fruits/veggies daily, and will be providing some Suebee's soon. Will rats 'overeat' like dogs, meaning we have to meter out the food? They have been stashing and hiding the blocks thus far, so it's hard to tell what they've eaten and how much.

Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:13 pm

Welcome to RP.

Generally, yes - free feed the lab blocks so they're always available. After a little while, you will have figured out how much they eat in a day, and you can provide that much so that you are ensuring they get fresh blocks every day.

Rats generally will regulate themselves pretty well. If you provide a lot of high fat or sugary foods, then they will get fat, but on the whole, limiting their food isn't the best way of keeping them slim - just make sure they're getting healthy foods and - if you're using the Harlan blocks you can go for the 14% protein ones which are also lower in calories (I believe). However, most rats keep a decent weight if you free feed them.

There isn't a whole lot you can do to prevent them stashing - mine used to do that as well (they seem to have stopped for now Crossed Fingers

but generally if I go in and find that their bowl is empty, I check their stashing areas. As long as there is food there (and I check regularly so I know how long things have been stashed for) I can move it back to the bowl (which lets me also check it hasn't been peed all over!). I make sure that, whatever happens, they get fresh food in their bowl every day and anything stashed gets thrown out. But generally there's very little, if anything, left over now.

Hope that helps.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:20 pm

Regal Rat I use and LM animal farms classic for food.
For treats they get Baby carrots or Strawberries and watermelon(season wise) and some cereal.

Question:Are flavoured cereal(Neopets Islandberry Crunch) ok? I gave mine some and they seems to adore it but not sure on health wise

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Cats:5 Raistlin,Deanna,Itty-Bitty,Cat,Maxine
Rats:5 Inyuasha,Sesshomaru,Grisom,Sidle,Kikyo
New rats:2 Marowak and Mewtwo
R.I.P
Cat:Mousie
Rat:Vertalus,Mew,Porygon,Cubone

Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:53 pm

Unlikely to be a problem as a one off or a treat - I don't know that particular brand but you want to try and keep down fat, sugar, additives, artificial sweeteners/flavours etc, and reconstituted stuff (so puffed whole grains of rice are better than "rice pops" made out of reconstituted rice flour, salt, sugar etc). Just remember that sugar, salt, fat and artificial stuff do the same to rats as they do to humans - make them porky, rot your teeth, hurt your heart and blood vessels and generally aren't as healthy.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~