NUTRITION: Food/Diets/Treats/Etc.

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:05 pm

Hi again all :O)
Stitch has settled in wonderfully. My, what an adorable fella!! I just love him to death! he LOVES to snuggle, is very curious..and is just so sweet!
Anyway, i'm concerned about his diet. He came to me with the seed mix stuff. He's not eating alot of it. He's not too thin..I'd say *ok* for weight. Anyway, i'm going to buy the food blocks but was wondering..am i going to have a tough time getting him to eat the blocks? Or will he readily accept them? I'm assuming it'll be hard to get him off the mix stuff.
Also, how do u know when it's time to get their teeth trimmed?

Lisa

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:13 pm

He may not willingly go from seed mix to blocks. Actually none of mine will eat blocks so they get Suebee's mix. If you don't mind mixing your own it really is a great diet and the rats love it. You can find it at http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

You shouldn't ever have to trim a rats teeth unless they have a problem with them or get too old to keep them worn down. They do a good job of keeping them the right length on their own through bruxing (grinding their teeth) and gnawing on toys.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:46 pm

My ratties love Harland Teklab blocks... they've never had a problem with different sorts of foods, even after I had them on a seed diet at first. It might be worth trying out. Of course, they also get fresh veggies and baby food and dog food and treats, so maybe they just don't mind the variety.

_________________
~Vicki and her morning coffee~
Latte, Arabica, Bean, and Demitasse

O..O
>o<
(db)S
^^

Rest in Peace my sweet Mocha

Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:23 pm

Suebee's mix is what I've used for years. It's a healthy diet, the ingrediants are readily available and you can mix up a months worth at a time. Usually pre-packaged mixes in the US are not formulated correctly for rats and have too many seeds, too much protien and too much fat.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:45 am

Hey there! Well, i went out today and bought everything i needed for Stitch's diet. I have one question tho re: the Total Cereal. I couldn't find it (i'm in Canada)..i'm assuming that the reason for the cereal is the vitamin C so i grabbed a box of Vector which is loaded with Vitamin C (couldn't find any other brands with Vitamin C) I switched the Vector for the Total. Do u think that would be ok? It seems like a reasonably healthy box of cereal. Also, how important is the puffed rice cereal? I couldn't find any of that either. I also couldn't find UNsalted sunflower seeds OR soy nuts so i bought salted. Is that a really bad choice? And finally..when u buy dried fruit..do u buy the variety mixture or is there one particular fruit I should be looking for?

Lisa

Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:41 am

I'm not sure what Vector is or has in it~I haven't seen it here in the U.S.

You have Wheetabix in Canada, right? You could check the vitamin and mineral content of that. As I remember, that was a fairly healthy and nutrious cereal that might make a decent substitution.
Just be cautious of anything with a high sugar content (that would be anything where sugar is listed in the first couple of ingrediants)

I'm under the impression that Total is used because it has a higher percentage of many different vitamins and minerals then most grain cereals, not just vitamin C. (The name"Total" is suppose to be a commercial gimmick making you think you're getting your total dietary requirements met when you eat this cereal) It does seem to have a lot higher percentages then most cereals.

What percentages of vitamins and minerals are listed on Vector?

To much salt is not good for ratties (just like it's not good for us)

Do you have any Co-Ops, Health Food Stores, or Organic/Natural Foods markets available to you? That would be a good place to look for puffed rice, unsalted sunflowers (which you still don't want to give to many of because of the high fat content) and other healthy snacks for your ratty.

I have a Co-Op near me where I buy bulk grains, cereals, nuts and soy crunchies for my ratties.
They love Bob's Red Mills 7 grain hot cereal that I buy there. I make a porridge for them with it and a little warmed up milk.

Dried fruit can include: cranberries, pineapple, papaya, apples, raisins, cherries, bananas,apricots..... just remember 2 things: 1) Ratties can choke on big, sticky bits of dried fruit, so be sure to chop it up tiny. 2) Oranges (& orange juice) is toxic to MALE rats!

Fresh fruits and veggies are also important.

Low protein dry dog food is a good source of nutrients too.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

_________________
Erika ~n~ The Clan

9 Girls ~ 13 Boys

**Playing at the Bridge ~ Lanigan, Tirna and Haggis ~ We miss you so much!**

Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:57 am

I try to avoid nuts. They're pretty high-calorie and hight-protein. The problem with too much protein is some rats will have a reaction to it and get quite scabby.

Others have expressed concerns their rats may choke on the shells.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:30 am

Well, as i said i have a mix she eats and she really likes them. So i was wondering ( if i were to get like a different kind of mix) what kind would i give her as like a treat?

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:52 pm

Well in that case--as a treat, unshelled and unsalted.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:28 pm

You can also get some shelled ones at most pet stores in the bird food section. I got my boys a big bag of them I give them as a treat, at a Petsmart in the bird section. Of course, since they are for birds they are unsalted.
In response to the claim of rats choking on the shells, I have never had a problem with it. My boys are quite adept at splitting the shell in half and getting the seed out of the middle. They have been eating them forever, and have never once choked on a shell. That's not to say they cannot choke on them, it could happen I am sure, mine just never have.

_________________
Lydelia and the Critters
... and now they are five Mr. Green

Kitties: Miss Kitty, Catbot
Ratties: Eugenuis, Ralph and Elliott
RIP Oliver -- We love you and we'll miss you!!! Cry

Tue Jul 20, 2004 12:22 am

The vitamin E is good for them. As long as you don't give so many that they get fat and scabby. My boys have pumpkin seeds in their regular mix, for the same reason.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:13 am

I bought my rats Reggie Rat Premium Complete Food as I thought this would be ideal, but the lady I bought the rats off of told me it wasn't a good idea, and when I looked at the protein I saw that it was quite high, and as you know, food high in protein is not good for rats. So, anyway, the breeder told me to just give them dry rabbit food, the sort with little seed-type things in, and green bits that look like mini leaves, and little round-ish orange bits. I read somewhere that you should not give rats rabbit food, but the rats don't seem to be complaining, and the breeder said it was fine. I can't help thinking there may be a major reason why they cannot have rabbit food. Any ideas anyone?

_________________
Chester the Chocolate Berkshire rat.
Logan (Puddin') the Agouti rat.
Diesel the Black Rex rat.
Jazz & Tango the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel dogs.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:18 am

Feeding rats rabbit food is a very bad idea... rabbit food is made primarily with alfalfa and rats cannot digest this. Rabbits are herbivores and rats are omnivores.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:36 am

Ok, so my boys are being silly and only eatting the corn, sunflower seeds, and dogfood out of their rat food. Should I just skip buying ratfood and just feed them Nutro lite? I do give them fruit and breads and such in the mornings to mix it up a bit. Just seems like such a waste.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:38 am

Actually rats shouldn't have seeds that much either. They're too high in protein too. Most commercial rat diets are no good, please take a look at Suebee's rat diet or get them Harlan or Mazuri lab blocks (don't feed them anything Kaytee, it stinks!). I believe the only "good" commercial rat diet available is Oxbow, but I know of people who aren't fond of it either.

If you have to feed them something commercial the Reggie Rat is best for them until you can find a better food at a price you can afford.

You can find a link to Suebee's rat diet under the general rat care part of this site. Check your local feeds stores for the harlan or mazuri blocks, if they don't have them they can probably order them. I feed mine a combo of a variation of the Suebee's diet, Nutro natural lite dog food, and Harlan 2018 vegetarian lab blocks. They also get losts of fresh fruit, veggies, fish, yogurt, whole grain crackers...good healthy stuff (in moderation of course). I get my lab blocks from a rescue, I can give you the link if you like.

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Rats~Janine, Madeleine, Cooper, Basil, Dolly, Kitty, Ilori, Theo, Elliot, Vladimir, Freya, Devi, Yoshimi, Nigel, Rosshalde, Faust, Tolkien, Caleb, Mira, Ivy, Nemo, Willow, Nikolas, Lucian & Linus
Mice~Molly, James & Will
Beardie~Cleo

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:39 pm

It depends a lot on the type of rabbit food. Many breeders in the UK feed their rats a base diet of ALpha herbal Deluxe Rabbit which does not contain alfalfa and is ideally balanced as a base food for the rats. As long as there is no (or very limited amounts) of alfalfa and the rabbit food is around 12% protein, a rabbit food as a base diet can be better than certain brands of rat foods. Rats don't eat alfalfa so therefore what it says on the side of the bag becomes unbalanced if there is too much alfalfa in there.
You should not feed rats on bird or hamster mixes with seeds and nuts, that is just plain stupid as they are too high in protein and will cause scabby rats and other health problems.

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Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:46 pm

If they are adults, you really should refuse to fill their food bowls up until they have finished the large majority of the food you put down as seeds, corn and dogfood will be too high in protein for bucks and cause skin problems, plus other health problems. Rats need a balanced diet containing reasonable percentages of all 4 food groups and if they are managing to get away with picking only the bits they like, you are feeding them too much in one sitting. Don't give them extra treats when they still have loads in their food bowl - think of this in terms of kids - they will often more than happily leave their vegetables in favour of chocolates or sweets or eat too many chocolate and sweet snacks between meals and not have enough room for their proper meals and we all know that eating too much junk food between meals makes kids spotty and causes weight and other problems!

_________________
Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:52 pm

Ok I really don't know what to definitely get them now! lol. I've looked for lab blocks, but can't find them anywhere, at least one person's said no to bird food, hamster food, rabbit food and reggie rat food. So now I'm just confused I suppose. The rabbit food is from the fruit and vegetables shop in my area. You just scoop it up into a bag. So I have no idea what it contains or how much protein etc is in it. The rats seem to be fine eating it, and they've had it for about 2 weeks. I also give them a small amount of dried vegetables. I could try and find out what is in the rabbit food I buy, but I doubt the shop will be able to tell me as it just comes in bulk, I will try though. If anyone can further help or "un-confuse" me, please do

_________________
Chester the Chocolate Berkshire rat.
Logan (Puddin') the Agouti rat.
Diesel the Black Rex rat.
Jazz & Tango the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel dogs.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:03 pm

I give my rats reggie rat mainly because of it's availability. I've tried making suebees diet, but if you're in England you'll probably find it fairly tough to get hold of the ingredients... the English version is better, but the Alpha herbal Deluxe Rabbit is a right pain to get hold of too! My nearest stockist is miles away.
Anyway, I supplement their diet with a bit of whatever I'm having most days (the days they get nothing are the days I have curry!). I often chuck in some dry pasta and cucumber, too.
I've never seen lab blocks - I've only ever seen reggie rat as commercial rat food.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:51 pm

Ellie-
As far as I can tell, this is the most hotly debated issue in rat keeping. Everyone has their own opinion. Some say Nutro Lite's the thing, others swear by lab blocks. Most seem to agree on SueBees mix (which I what I think I'll switch to soon), but so far I have never seen anything like a consensus on this issue, so my personal advice to you is to do some experimentation, find out what your ratties like within these foods, then watch to see if they have problems (scabbiness from extra protein, etc.)

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:17 pm

Well, what was worrying me is that they had gone a good day without eatting any of it. They were leaving the oats and grains behind.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:26 pm

I wouldn't worry, Alisha. Generally speaking, they'll eat when they get hungry. When I was a kid, instead of fighting with me about what I would or wouldn't eat, my mother removed the power struggle by putting me on "No snack status." If I didn't eat my breakfast, no snacks 'til lunch, if I didn't eat my lunch, no snacks 'til dinner, that sort of thing. Sure, from time to time I got hungry, but I learned quickly to eat good stuff when it was time, instead of whatever my little kid's heart desired whenever I wanted it. And, even better, my mom didn't have to fight me about it

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:13 pm

Yeah, as Sarah said everyone has a different opinion on the subject, especially on protein levels - so see what works for you and your rats...

I feed Harlan Teklad lab blocks mixed with a few of Suebee's mix ingredients just for some variety... but the blocks are nutritionally complete alone. The Harlan Teklad blocks are rated #1 lab block by the RMCA.

You can buy them from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue - the price is cheap plus all proceeds go to the rescue rats!

Here's the link to the Ark Store:

http://www.kimsarkrescue.org/store.html

_________________
~~~(---)8> JoAnna <8(---)~~~

Join the North East U.S. Rat Lovers Yahoo Group! groups.yahoo.com/group/NERatLovers

Adopt a rat from Kim's Ark Rodent Rescue www.kimsarkrescue.org

Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:28 am

	Ellie wrote:
	I could try and find out what is in the rabbit food I buy, but I doubt the shop will be able to tell me as it just comes in bulk, I will try though.

I see no reason why they can't tell you - the large bulk sacks should have the ingredients listed - I would also ask for the nutritional breakdown ie protein, copper etc - which should also be on the sacks. Take a pen with you! I would be very surprised if the they don't have the ingredients on the sacks.

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Joolz Rainbow Smiley

Blossom, Opal, Jorja & Evie <:3 )~~~

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:27 pm

Last night I had a few potato chips, then stuck my hand in the mouse cage without thinking. This is the new cage, with the three new girls plus Yoli. They attacked my hand and licked it to death, holding on to my fingers so as not to let them get away. I stood there giggling and letting them lick the salt from my fingers, amazed because this was the first time they have not run away from me in terror. The only problem was Badger, who wanted to bite my fingers rather than licking, so I had to keep telling her no and jerking my finger back or bopping her softly on the head with it. She still didn't get the picture, but I hope she will eventually.

My guess is that a lot of salt is not good for them (or for rats, which is why I'm posting this here rather than in the mouse forum). But the small amount of leftover salt and oil from the few chips I had would not do them harm, I thought, so I let them keep at it.

I wonder if this might be a good trust training idea. Or would even that little bit of salt be too much each day? Not that I want to eat chips every day, but I thought maybe could stick my hand in the bag and let them climb on me and lick, then quickly wash my hand and put it back in the cage and hope they still climb on me.

I seem to have found the magic ingredient -- for mice, anyway! I would not ever try this with Thimble, I think, since his teeth are bigger than theirs, and he already favors yogies more than the others do. He does a cute little yogie dance when I get out the treat jar, it's adorable.

Obviously I would not keep this salt finger lick thing going for long, only every other day or so until they no longer run in terror from my hand -- but is even that too long or too often to use salt, you think?

Plus, I'm concerned that they may begin to view my fingers as edible, something I don't want to have happen, obviously. I'm wondering if doing this for a little while just to establish trust is worth it.

Thanks for any opinions.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:07 am

I would think it would be ok.. maybe use something else besides potato chip salt like ice cream, soy formula, things like that you can dip your fingers in wink

I let my ratties clean my fingers after I have eaten something that got on my hands and they know that my fingers are not food and only to lick. One of my girls has gotten excited before and tugged on my finger until she realize it was not something that is detachable or edible, lol Rolling Eyes

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Nemo, my best rattie buddie ever.. I miss you and will never, ever forget you my big squishy boy. I love you!

Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:17 pm

It's just that the salt seemed so utterly irresistable to them -- they have never grabbed my hand to lick anything else from it. I figured that anything that can make them overcome their fear is a good thing, in moderation. I hope.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:52 am

My rats have gradually started rejecting the puffed wheat in Suebee's mix. They'll all (most of them, anyway) eat everything else and then leave the puffed wheat. I was just leaving it in the cage to force them to eat it until I filled their bowl back up, but they've recently taken to hiding all of it somewhere that I can't see it so I think they ate it. (Seriously, whoever said rats were dumb? They're smart little brats!) So I figured it was time to find something to replace it with.

Does anybody have any suggestions for something that would be of similar nutritional value that I could try introducing to them?

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Winter and the ratties: Argos, Prometheus, Apollo, Orion, Napoleon, Montecore, Cornelius, Magnus, Dozer, Jesus, Ferdinand, Harlequin, Cambria, Ambellina, Raven, Hedwig, Momo, and Suzie.

Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:06 am

Suebee answers questions on the ratsrule.com forum. However you can mix the Nutro and the grain mix in equal parts so you only have 1 container. This is what we do since we have to mix a HUGE amount at a time. We keep it available at all times and have had no problems with overfeeding. Your new rats will pig out for the first day or two though because they are not used to such a tasty food, but they slow down quickly and will eat normally once they settle in. We have had great results with this diet, our ratties grow well and are very healthy without being too "squishy".

Bad rattitude Rattery

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Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:37 am

Thanks for the reply! I will probably follow that advice. Just wondering how many rats you have? And the size of the food dish/container that the rats eat from? I am a bit paranoid about having a food dish that is either too small or big lol.

Also, would that mean that in the morning you give the rats a healthy breakfast...such as fruits, porridge, bread? And in the evenings for dinner, a mix of vegetables, a little meat, etc?

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Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:34 am

We currently have 17 adults and 28 babies. I give the ratties fresh veggies or fruit in the evenings, and sometimes extras when I'm cooking during the day, they get Suebee's the rest of the time and occasionally yogurt treats or peanuts. You should base your bowl size on how many rats you have and how often you want to fill it. A ferret bowl is good for 2-4 rats being filled every day. For more ratties or less fillings a ceramic cat dish works too. The best judge is just to watch the food bowl and gauge it over a few days experiences.

Bad Rattitude Rattery

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Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:36 pm

I use two ferret bowls - one for dry mix and one for veggies/fruits etc. Else the dry mix gets all soggy.

I use ceramic ferret bowls as they seem to be the right size and wash up easily and can't be tipped over when the rats stand on the edge of them. If you can't find Nutro, you can usually find another dog food that is similar in ingrediants and low in protein. I've used the Professional Lite and it seems close to Nutro, but the rats prefer the nutro.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Sun Aug 29, 2004 8:51 pm

Hi,

I have made up a rat mix based on Suebee's and Alison's Shunamite Rat mixes.

I believe its pretty good for them, based upon what I have read and checked in the Scuttling Gourmet and what I have read online, but I would certainly appreciate those of you that are more experienced with homebased mixes looking it over to see if I have forgotton anything.

Andy's Rat Mix

2Kg of James Wellbeloved Senior Duck and Rice Dog mix (18% Protein)
500g Rolled Oats
500g Puffed Rice
500g Just Right cereal (supplimented with B vitamins and iron)
500g Wheat Flakes
250g Muesli mix
100g Sunflower seeds (shelled)
250g Dried fruits (cherries, blueberries, raisins etc)
250g Small dried pasta shapes
100g Dried Soya pieces

This basic dried mix is available all day, and supplimented with fresh fruits and vegetables, breads, cooked rice or pasta, the odd bit of chicken or tuna at dinner time.

Treatwise, they have a squirt of TubeSnax (a ferret treat paste that is full of vitamins and minerals and very tasty) and the odd ready made treat stick etc.

My boys seem to love this mix, they eat it much more readily than the ready mixed stuff, and there is pretty much no waste, unlike with the prepared mixes, where I ended up throwing 1/4 or 1/5 of the bowl away because it was tiny grains or alfalfa pellets.

Please can you let me know if my boys are missing out on anything? I have tried to get this mix as complete as possible, but if I have missed anything, I will of course add the necessary to the mix.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Andy and the boys.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:26 am

Another Canadian saying hello!

To those who feed their rats a diet that includes a dog food portion -- does anyone know what % of protein I should be looking for in a dog food if I can't find Nutro? I'm curious, so that I can choose a brand of comparable nutrition, just in case Nutro isn't available. Are there any other specific nutritional content levels that are important to know about when selecting a dog food? Thanks!

_________________
Willing slave to:
Phoebe the Phabulous Basset Hound!
Tigger, Maggie, Sam, and Willow the girlcats!
Pipkin the wünderbun!
Ginny and Luna the Rodents of Unusual Size!

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:43 am

Nutro is 14% protein.

The main ingrediants as listed on the bag are:

rice flour, lamb meal, ground rice, rice bran, dried beet pulp, sunflower oil, poultry fat.......

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:53 am

Ah! Okay. Thanks! In terms of protein content, is 14% the highest I ought to go with?

_________________
Willing slave to:
Phoebe the Phabulous Basset Hound!
Tigger, Maggie, Sam, and Willow the girlcats!
Pipkin the wünderbun!
Ginny and Luna the Rodents of Unusual Size!

Sat Sep 11, 2004 4:50 am

You'd have to use the correct kind of Harlan though. The problem with it is that petshops and such hardly ever sell but one type of Harlan, and it's usually the grower stuff (WAY too high protein for adults.) I also use a variation of Suebee's. It costs next to nothing and the rats LOVE it.

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http://www.angelfire.com/psy/chic-k-rat/index.html

http://kerack.proboards18.com/index.cgi

Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:39 am

I give my rats tomatoes, cooked pasta, chicked bones, chicken (as long as their are no spices), cucumber, peas, apples and pretty much a little of whatever I have aside from their regular diet http://ratsrule.com/diet.html

Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:09 pm

You can find a partial list of foods to avoid here.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:09 pm

I'd steer clear of the licorice, I think I read that it's not good for them.

But my rats have fresh food as the bulk of their diet, so they get pasta, chicken, salad, bread, basically anything I eat. So I guess you couldn't call it a treat, since it's their regular diet.

But I give them yogurt as a treat, like petite filous, and small pieces of proper chocolate, and they like a nice cup of tea now and then too. All rats are different though.
Seven loves meat, can't do without it, whereas Gabriel seems to prefer salads.

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www.shadowrat.com

Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:11 pm

Some of us would turn our noses up at what rats consider treats--you have to think outside the box

My rats love fruit and veggies: rice, steamed broccoli, raw spinach leaves, tomato, blueberries, bits of banana. Just experiment with stuff from your plate to see what they like!

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:30 am

Just about anything that is human grade people food, and non toxic to them is the best treat you can give them! Anything left over from my meals I'll give them some of it.

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"If you won't rescue, don't breed"

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:55 am

Rasttus loves apples,banana,carrots,kiwi. He will eat almost anything but i give him some fresh fruit and veggies everyday along with his rat food.

Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:18 pm

I heard that Kiwifruit, like oranges and other citrus was not to good for rats. I'm not sure why, I just picked it up somewhere. Rolling Eyes

Is it because of the fact that they can't burp or sumthing..?

Anyone care to tell me otherwise or is it true

Thanks

_________________
My girls: Gemma <:3 )~
Shadow <:3 )~

I still luv you: Sooty <:3B)~
Sweep <:3B)~
Ratty-Tatty <:3B)~

Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:22 pm

In addition to Christie's link, I found some info here as well http://www.rmca.org/Articles/oj.htm
The problem for male rats is d-limonene, which is found in orange rinds, not the actual fruit itself. Processed orange juice has d-limonene as a result of the squeezing process. Black pepper, mango, and nutmeg also have d-limonene. Hope this helps.

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"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man"
-Mark Twain

Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:27 pm

Thanks for the replies. I've taken the advice and have thrown away the rest of the licorice. It seems other than that I've been just fine with the treats they've been getting.

One question didn't get answered though...is there any food, fruit/veggie, etc. that I can give a mum to be to help her out? She's been sleeping an awful lot since she's started showing and nest building...

Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:31 am

Moms should actually get extra protein. Lean meats, hardboiled eggs, and yogurt work well. Also soy formula is often used as a boost for expecting or nursing moms. You can put it in a regular water bottle for her to drink, but remember to throw it out after an hour.

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Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:06 pm

Just went out and bought more foods for my two ladies so they have a variety in their diet. I did do some research before buying, but more opinions would be nice just incase there's some cons invovled.

Here's the food list and some of their top ingredients:
- Pumpkin seeds: pumpkin seeds and vegetable oil .
- Hagens Nutri-block : ground wheat, wheat middlings, soya bean meal, yeast, corn, etc.
- Quakers original low fat rice cakes: whole grain brown rice.
- Lamb Meal and Rice Dog Biscuits: wheat flour, lamb meal, brewers rice, wheat middlings, poultry meal, corn gluten meal, etc.
- Vegetable spiral noodles, 3 colours, raw: tomatoe powder, spinach powder, etc.
- Dry Roasted Soya nuts Garlic flavour(never noticed the flavour until after): soya beans, sea salt, garlic powder and canola oil.
- Rondley Yogurt drops(as treats):sugar, milk, yogurt, oils and fats, cereals etc.
- Fresh uncooked veggies and fruits like: grapes, apples, carrots, broccoli, rasberries, and celery.

Thats it, so if people can give their input on if i bought the right things or not for my rats, that would be great. I'm especially worried about feeding them the soya beans now that they're garlic flavour. Does garlic pose a threat?
Thanks alot

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*~*~*Laura*~*~*
Got me 2 rats and lotsssss of fish!

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:42 am

Garlic is actually good for your ratties... um antibiotic properties I believe. Or was it anti-arthritis?? haha don't remember exactly. But yea all the food looks just make sure they dog biscuits don't have too much protein. And cute ratties btw!

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* Viia *

Bongo & ET: I'll miss you dearly, my precious little men Angel rat

Sat Sep 18, 2004 3:52 am

Thank you very much for your help StUk_In_AfRiKa.

When you say too much, what percentage? On the box of biscuits it states percentages of fat, protein, etc, and protein is 20% being at the top of the list. Is that in a safe range or should I stop giving it to them?

_________________
*~*~*Laura*~*~*
Got me 2 rats and lotsssss of fish!

Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:29 am

20% is borderline too high, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. The standard for lab blocks, Harlan-Teklad, has a range of 14% to 19% for their different lab block formulae.

As far as the "vegetable" pasta--there's not much vegetable matter in there, to be honest. For example, let's talk about the green "spinach" pasta.

*Victor adjusts his mortarboard then taps a big stick on the blackboard*

If you go to the USDA National Nutrient Database and enter "spinach" we can take a look at what the nutritional value of spinach is and compare it to the label.

Select "Spinach, raw" then deselect "100 grams" and select one leaf (ten grams). The next page gives you a complete breakdown on what the nutritional value is--notice one leaf will have 10 mg of calcium, 56 mg of potassium, 2.8 mg of vitamin C, and 938 IU's of vitamin A, among other nutrients. These quantities are enough for them to be listed on the nutrition information label, so if you read it...

...they're not listed, which means there aren't enough of them in the food to qualify as having to be listed. That's not to say there isn't spinach in it, but there's not even a total of one spinach leaf in that entire package.

OTOH, our rats love their pasta, too. So if they eat it, I say keep giving it to them! I just like pretending I'm a teacher sometimes

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:45 pm

My rats get both cooked and hard pasta, hard stuff in their food (Suebees) and cooked stuff as a treat. I've never had a problem with broccoli or any other veggie. I know rats can um....pass gas? So maybe that's how they solve that problem? Any info is appreciated.

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Sun Sep 19, 2004 5:16 am

We give them both raw and cooked pasta. Usually raw, and cooked if we give them some of what we had. As far as broccoli, our rats love it, but they don't get it every day. I don't think they get it every week. Don't worry about gas buildup. If it can't come out of one end, it'll come out the other, and you'll know it.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:08 am

Hi guys,

I found this article and have decided to boycot most Kaytee products. I now check every rat food label for this ingredient they call "E" (ethyoxyquin)

http://www.rattyrat.com/reviews/foodkaytee.html

Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:48 pm

I feed my rats Kaytee one in a while, but only if I'm out of Harlan and my new order hasn't came in yet. :rolls eyes: Where I live there is no real quality food avalible, I have to order Harlan offline.

_________________
I write down everything I want to remember. That way, instead of spending a lot of time trying to remember what it is I wrote down, I spend the time looking for the paper I wrote it down on.
http://www.geocities.com/brinley_bear/index.htm

Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:09 am

My first question is, is it better to feed my rats 3 times a day and only in small portions as if it were a "meal'? Or is it better to have a dish full of food and then on occasion give them small meals? It seems as if some people feed their rats like a dog or cat periodically during the day in meal portions and some seem to leave food in a bowl for them to eat when they are hungry.

Also in Soubee's(sp?) Diet it mentions lab blocks, is this the bag of dog food? or the Dog biscuits?

Also, any suggestions on diets, treats, feeding arrangments or anything that may help me when it comes to feeding rats is appreciated. ( I have 4 boys; 2 babies (2-3 months) and 2 big boys (7-8 months).)

Wed Sep 29, 2004 11:20 am

Rats (or any caged animal, really) should never be left totally without food. A dish of dry food should be available at all times, but TRY not to cave in when they eat only their favorite bits and leave the rest. Mr. Green

I am currently going into day 3 of not replacing the dry food in the mouse cages until they eat at least a bit more and not just the "good parts". I feel awful but am standing firm.

The lab blocks in Suebee's Mix refer to the processed food fed to lab rodents. Many rodents think they are crap. I agree, they taste like dirt mixed with dog food. Yuck

As to more suggestions, try a forum search here on "diet" and "nutrition" and even "Subee's Mix" and you should get tons of ideas and info!

It'll be good reading. Oh, and search on "treats", too.

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:48 pm

I keep dry mix (Suebee's) in the cage at all times. Usually it takes them a couple days to finish it off, and like Kate, I don't refill until it's empty. Each night they get a bowl of veggies, fruits and some other misc treat leftover from dinner.

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:24 pm

The Kaytee Yogurt Chips have the same Ethoxyquin ingredient in them. Does this mean I can no longer give my rats their beloved Yogies? Or is there a different brand of yogies that everyone else uses? Just curious.

_________________
My Boys:

Napoleon, Atilla, Columbus

My Girl:

Paris and her nine new babies!

Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:34 am

I don't use the Kaytee yogurt drops, mine are the 8in1 brand. Nice container!

_________________

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:13 pm

I've recently made the swich to SueBees. but also just as I decided I wanted SueBees for my girls... Hannaford has decided to discontinue soy nuts in the bulk... the snack one in the bags have little quanity and are expensive. I haven't checked out the health food stores... i've figured they'll be expensive there also... are there any alternets I could use... ? what about Pine Nuts?

_________________
Merry and The Sunflower Thieves!

Lyric Bean, Emma Kaboodle, and Harley Quinn the rex head.

To all those who have crossed the bridge before us...
Piper Monkey
Princess Zelda "It's beautiful here!, you should see me now, I'm perfect."

Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:33 pm

I believe the soynuts are, in part, there to add vitamin K, so I'd be sure to replace it with something that also contains this vitamin.

_________________

Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:41 pm

For all you Kaytee users without other options, remember, there is the alternative of Suebee's mix which you can find at your local grocery and it's fairly cheap too. And you can make it in bulk - I make mine so that one batch lasts a month.

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:29 pm

	Christy wrote:
	For all you Kaytee users without other options, remember, there is the alternative of Suebee's mix

I'd agree with Christy - If you can't get some other kind of food, take a look at Suebee's diet or something similar - its easy enough to get half a dozen boxes of cereals, some dog kibble and the other bits and bobs to make it up.

Also, I have bought (before I went onto homemixed food) 2Kg and 15Kg bags of food online. Its worth checking to see if any of them can deliver to you for a reasonable cost. For example, you can get Oxbow pellets online (http://www.oxbowhay.com/showProduct.sp?PRODUCT_NO=75) (though they appear to be out of stock at the moment).

I cheat with yoggies - I give them human yoggie drops from an organic food shop... no additives there.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:15 pm

Trinity,

if you're considering Harlan blocks by mail order, there's a website www.theratshop.com that charges only about $1.00 a pound for various types of Harlan lab blocks. There's also shipping, but if you order a few or more bags (consider freezing them) the shipping cost kind of averages out to not so bad.

carolyn, kiwi and stripes

Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:01 am

Does anyone know anything about SunSeed Brand Rodent blocks? Are they safe?

It's what I feed both my rats and mice, along with their mix (half petstore mix, half home-mixed) and veggies/fruits.

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:32 am

Ok i just was wondering couyld someoine crush up our vitamins and give them to rats?? As i take muiltivitamins and some friut and vegtitable vitamins and just thought if rats can have them Confused

Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:51 am

you would have to be careful not to overdose them. I think some people have used kids vitamis, but you can get Ferretvite which has the right nutrients in. However, if you are feeding them a correctly balanced diet they shouldn't need them, unless possibly you are using a homemixed food and need the supplimentation.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:49 am

Hi, i was just wondering if anyone uses this stuff for your rats water.

Oasis
Vita-Drops
Concentrated High Potency MultiVitamins
for Hamsters, Rats, Mice & Gerbils?

I just bought it, but I've never used it before and i was curious if it would help my ratties get all the vitamins they need, or if it is not good for them, etc. Any info would be a big help!

Thanks
Shannon

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:22 pm

It's unlikely to help your ratties for a few reasons...

1. It may make the water taste funny, so they may drink less.
2. The vitamins lose their potency after 12 hours, so you have to change it and redo the vitamins that often and the rats have to drink it all to get the whole dose.
3. The vitamins have a low bio-availability, so not much is absorbed by the body.

I do use vitamins for ill rats or ones that come to me as rescues and are underweight, have nutrient problems, or injuries. Otherwise a balanced diet should be fine, I do use a fair bit of protein supplements because I've had good results with a higher protein diet, but otherwise I'd concentrate more on the diet end than the supplements.

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Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:55 am

hi im new to the sight an rats aswel,

i owned mice when i was younger but rats are alot diffent im sure. One of my friends use to own rats so i was talking to her tying to learn as much as possible and she told me that she used to feed her rats snails when she came accross them.
So last night when i was out side the groung was moist and i notised a snail, so i picked it up and put it in the cadge and imediatly Raylene took it from me an began smashing it agist the bars of the cadge and eating it. Later on i wondered if it was such a good idear after all?
She seems fine but is it realy heatheyto be feeding her snails? Confused

_________________
my rat maby be the run of her littler-a tiny little thing, but she still kicks the family cat's but!

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:01 am

I would highly suggest against the feeding of snails to rats, especially any you find outside. You never know what they have been crawling over that may have pesticides on it. And it's just my personal belief that no live animal should be fed to another on purpose - no matter what it is. She should get everything she needs from the diet you feed her. If you need a good diet check out Suebee's Diet.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:56 am

i went out tonight and got some things for my new rats and picked up some alfalfa cubes.

the brand was rainbow pets? something like that i know it had rainbow in it.

well anyway i wanted to make sure it was alright to give it to them.

the package said for small animals and rodents. they are greenish brownish hard blocks.

Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:23 am

No. Alfaalfa cubes are indegistibale to rats. It was good of you to ask though, your a great rattie mom!

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:41 pm

Whoa, timeout on the "indegestible" bit!

Alfalfa is mostly fiber. Almost *all* fiber is indegestible, but it's a necessary aid for good digestion (that is, the process of digestion) in a lot of God's li'l creatures.

After all, birds swallow pebbles, which are certainly not digestible, to aid digestion. Hay, like alfalfa and other grasses, is not digestible, but try to raise a healthy horse, guinea pig, or rabbit without feeding them hay. Cows eat undigestible grass all day, as do geese.

It's a common misconception that "undigestible" fiber is not good for you. That misconception is just plain WRONG.

All that being said, alfalfa is actually quite high in calcium (something *else* that is not digestible, BTW) and for that reason it's not recommended as part of the everyday diet for smaller mammals (I'm not sure about rabbits, but it's a no-no for guinea pigs), as it can lead to kidney and bladder stones. I give my piggies some every now and then as a treat, tho.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:51 pm

Bunnies need it when they are young and they are weaned off of it after 6 months old.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:52 pm

It is a good source of protein for bunnies, but bunnies are on a different scale. Here is the scale:

Highest protein needs
cats
dogs
humans
rats
baby bunnies
adult bunnies
lowest protein needs

Alfalfa has the perfect amount of protein for baby bunnies, but too much for adult bunnies, and not nearly enough for ratties!

_________________
Arvay and the Squirmin' Vermin

When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'

--Erma Bombeck

Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:30 am

Well said Arvay. Hairless rats do need a goodly amount of protein. The cheapest and easiest ways are canned dog food or eggs. You really can't find anything easier than a can of good dog food, and my rats think it's great. Just an FYI though the "loaf" varieties are usually more appreciated than the "slices". Hardboiled or scrambled eggs are very economical also, I've been know to pick up two dozen just for my rats. Chicken or canned fish are usually well received also, mine like tuna, salmon, and sardines, and have had oysters on occasion.

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Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:51 am

Not to change the subject or anything, but do hairless have to have anything more than Suebee's diet? Is that high enough in protein for them? I just got one and she lives with 4 other girls, so I didn't want all the other girls to get too much protein.

_________________
My zoo: Link, Cyrano de Bergerat, Pipsqueak and the girls Harley, Kira and Esie<:8 )~
Also, Arwen the garter snake, Merry the beta, 2 fantail goldfish, 4 applesnails (r.i.p. pinky), 3 cory cats and Evie, the Jack Russell Terrier.

Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:51 am

GR, protein problems are fairly rare if you are feeding a high quality diet. I can tell you mine get much higher than the 14% alot of people feed, their kibble is 18% alone, and of all the rats here I have no skin problems. In fact they only have improved since I've upped it a bit.

There is some thought that protein sensitivity might be genetic, but some rats are more prone than others. As long as no one in your group is sensitive, you shouldn't have problems as long as you stick to high quality food and don't feed it every day. I do dogfood, meat, or eggs three days a week, smaller portions for my fatter ones and squish boys. Bigger ones for the cages that have babies or hairless. Just don't go overboard or they can develop kidney problems, everything in moderation.

My current nekkid babies are -> Larry, Wrinkles, Twiggy, and Peanut! and Fuzz is 1/2 nekkid!

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Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:02 am

what kind of canned dog food is the best? i give my dogs dry food (purina little bits). i don't give them canned because of potty issues(im sure nobody wants to know about that)

but anyways i have a few cans of cadilac(i think thats it?-its the lower grade cheaper kind) dog food that my mother in law sent over. would that be alright to give them or would dry food be ok?

Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:15 am

My rats get Nutro, Authority, or Nature's Recipe canned foods, because all I have is a Petsmart right now. BTW, does anyone know what "good brands" Pet Supplies Plus sells? Our new place only has a PSP and I'd like to know if I'm going to have to drive forever to get my kitty's food.

The dry mix is made with Nutro Large Breed Weight Maintainance, plus Harlan blocks and the rest of Suebee's stuff. I also have some Royal Canin dog food that they get as treats because it's VERY high in protein and not suitable for daily consumption.

I am not familiar with the brand your talking about, but I tend to stay away from cheap dog foods for any reason since someone told me that some euthanized pets end up in low quality dog foods. Don't know or care if it's true, but it was enough to make me make sure that even the strays get good stuff.

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Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:48 am

So I've started my ratlings on Suebee's diet and they *love* it.. All except for the pasta and the soynuts... Is there anything I could replace those two with? I also include Mazuri Lab Blocks in their diet as well, and everything will be gone by the next day, except the 2 things mentioned above..

So yeah, what could I replace them with?

_________________
Lin
Sachi-bu, Lennox, Kenzo, Oliver (Ollie), Keoki, and Atari (the ratties)
Seiko (the fert)

Angel rat

You will be missed, sweet Shinjin. Angel rat

Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:08 am

The soynuts provide vitamin k...

_________________
THE RATS
~~~~~WilloW~~~ Ace & Jack

~~~BonsaI~~~~~
~~~````````and Lola the bunny````````~~~

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:10 am

Hm. Would boiled or defrosted edamame (I believe these are the soybeans themselves) out of the pods be alright? Although--
Chunkerbunny, I also remember reading that uncooked tofu is dangerous to rats, as well as unroasted soynuts-- does this imply that uncooked soy products are, in whole dangerous to rats?
But I'm not sure that what I read was even accurate-- like the sites that say "chocolate is most definitely poison to rats", and that "rats cannot burp and so carbonated drinks will kill them", and so on.
I was also apparantly misinformed about the K content of spinach (it repeats everywhere that it's in "dark leafy vegetables, like spinach", so I guess it was a false assumption on my part). But the ratters liked their veggies anyway, so at least it isn't not wasted.

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:36 am

There is plenty of vit k and iron in it. It just has a low bioavailability (the amount of it your body can readily absorb). Labels are misleading. You can read things that say, for example, 100% calcium, now just because the food contains 100% of your daily recommended amount of calcium, doesn't mean you are going to actually GET it. It may be a low quality ingredient that your digestive system is going to pass along. Or in the example of calcium, calcium needs a highly acidic environment to be digested, therefore if the food is not particularly acidic, it is not going to be digested. This is why calcium in antacids, such as Tums, is stupid, and nothing more than a selling point.

Does that help?

_________________

Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:37 am

Oh and chocolate is okay in small amounts, and rats can't burp wink

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Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:24 am

I read that rats should have (especially babies) oysters. Of course after I read this I immediately went to the store. Unfortunately, my memory stinks and I bought clams instead. Are they OK to give the rats? Thought I better ask before I did anything! Thanks!

_________________
Dora, Isa (the second), and Tiko

Sleep sweet Boots, Benny

Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:35 pm

Oysters are recommended because of their copper content, I believe, however, if you are feeding a balanced diet already they are not necessary, but they ARE appreciated by the rats. I don't see a problem with clams either. Mine have had canned tuna, oysters, and salmon.

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Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:47 pm

	henrykins wrote:
	wow I never realised rat's could eat fish!! It sounds like they can pretty much eat anything healty??!!

Rats can eat a lot of what is healthy for humans to eat. The Pet Rats Canada website has a good list of some forbidden foods: http://petratscanada.com/forbidden_foods.htm

_________________
Winter and the ratties: Argos, Prometheus, Apollo, Orion, Napoleon, Montecore, Cornelius, Magnus, Dozer, Jesus, Ferdinand, Harlequin, Cambria, Ambellina, Raven, Hedwig, Momo, and Suzie.

Tue Nov 30, 2004 8:50 pm

	bmratgirl wrote:
	human chocolate is a big no no! it contains a chemical called theobromine which is happy hormone inducer- but it can lead to brain and heart problems in pet ratties - it has even been known to kill.

Is there written documentation of this? Just curious because I've never heard of this before in rats and I'd like to read it if there is. Chocolate is actually recommended as a bronchiodialtor for rats with respiratory problems. Rats and dogs do not react the same to chocolate. Not trying to be rude - just curious.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:22 pm

I was wondering that too and did a quick search. There doesn't seem to be a lot of research done, but I think the RMCA has probably the most informative article: http://www.rmca.org/Articles/chocolate.htm

I'm glad it doesn't seem to be nearly as much of a problem as it is with dogs - as someone who has given wheezy rats the odd bit of therapeutic chocolate I'd be feeling really guilty right now if that wasn't the case!

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xx nic & ratties xx

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:47 am

My rats love chicken bones left over from after a bbq

The practicaly eat the whole thing! And when they smell them coming they start racing around trying to predict what level in the cage I'm going to put them on so they can steal one first! It's funny ot watch

But actually, I've never asked - is it bad to feed rats cooked chicken bones? In all the times I've fed them to them, I've never had any problems. But just wondering, because I know they're bad for dogs..

And also lettuce.. why's that bad? I'm assuming it's because of the tough cellulose cell walls making up the lettuce. But If humans find it easy to break down, why not rats? Or maybe I'm on completely the wrong track ....

_________________
My girls: Gemma <:3 )~
Shadow <:3 )~

I still luv you: Sooty <:3B)~
Sweep <:3B)~
Ratty-Tatty <:3B)~

Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:56 am

Chicken bones are fine for rats since they gnaw them and don't chew them in one piece like a dog does. The crunching up of the bone by a dog endangers them because it creates splintered fragments of the bone. Ratties don't do that and the bones are actually good for their teeth.

Lettuce has no real nutritional value. And it can cause them to be gassy.

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Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:25 am

	Quote:
	I believe I read somewhere that you shouldn't feed yams/sweet potatoes because certain compounds form cyanide in their little rat tummies or something. Can anyone verify this?

You probably did read that, it is true, but only pertains to uncooked sweet potatoes...

_________________
THE RATS
~~~~~WilloW~~~ Ace & Jack

~~~BonsaI~~~~~
~~~````````and Lola the bunny````````~~~

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:30 pm

rats are onivores. your ratlets may be a touch upset with you if they have to become veggie'S!!!!
em......regarding human chocolate - i read somewhere that moderate quantities are harmful, think it was on a website- dunno whether it's a proven fact though - but im gonna find out.
i would assume that small quantities are fine if that u guys think so ?

Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:53 pm

OK that will be the caffiene in the chocolate that is the stimulant... but a little nibble isn't going to kill them.

OTOH, my ratties turn their nose up at chocolate (not cocoa, they love cocoa in bourbons and other ratty choco treat things) so I guess it doesn't really matter. Mr. Green

Oranges - There is some evidence that chemicals in the peel can cause problems in male rats ONLY, but if you give just the pulp, then there shouldn't be a problem. Also refers to other citrus fruits.

Meat - yes I think its due to the protein levels - too much can make them itchy and scabby. But a little bit is probably necessary (either as meat or in prepared foods, dog kibble, etc) to ensure they do get enough of all the right proteins. Also it can make them a bit smellier.... (compare rat poop with dog/cat/ferret poop)

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:25 am

Mine love carrots but hate green beans.

Guess it's a matter of preference.

Fish is fine in moderation as it is high protein. As an occasional treat it should be fine.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:52 am

I mix some Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul into my ratties mix

is this just as good as nutro? I believe that the ingredents are better..they are..

Chicken, turkey, oatmeal, whole grain brown rice, chicken meal, turkey meal, whole grain white rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), potatoes, cracked pearled barley, millet, duck, salmon, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, kelp, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, chicory root extract, carrots, peas, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, glucosamine hydrochloride, chicory root extract, vitamin E supplement, chondroitin sulfate, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

my girls seem to like it - took them a few days to try it out but now i see that they are eating it every day.

Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:19 pm

Iceberg lettuce is a no-no for any small fuzzy creature--from rats to rabbits and inbetween. As wolfpuppy says, it gives 'em the runs. I don't feed my guys lettuce at all, so I personally don't have a definite answer. Lettuce has a higher water content, so it's not as...I dunno, nutritionally valuable as other veggies and fruit are. Spinach might be all right, but to get whole bag or bundle just for your rats is nuts. You're better off with more meaningful veggies, in limited amounts, like broccoli and what not. Even more importantly, buying veggies and fruits that YOU like as well or can buy in small quantities. Buying a big head of broccoli just to have it spoil is sorta silly!
I'm sure there's gotta be a "good for rats" food page on here somewhere!!! There it is...under General Rat Care, Diets and Exercise...

_________________
Karinka
Stop by and see StellaLuna Rattery
www.stellalunarattery.com

Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:13 pm

It sounds nice - but it really depends on the protein and fat content.
If you are giving it to adult rats, the protein should not be higher than about 15% and the fat content should not be over 5%.

_________________
Joolz Rainbow Smiley

Blossom, Opal, Jorja & Evie <:3 )~~~

Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:54 pm

I love the lettuce debate.

Iceburg is rather low in nutrients--some B vitamins and that's about it. I've heard the rumors about it giving your rats diarrhea, because of the "high water content" and I think it's probably not true. After all, if the water in lettuce causes diarrehea, why doesn't the water in water cause diarrhea? Keep in mind grapes and watermelon have a higher water content, per weight, than lettuce does, and I'm sure lots of people give them to their rats as treats.

Because of its blandness, some recommend lettuce if your pet won't eat anything else (suggestion from a guinea pig list I'm on).

We've given our rats lettuce (not iceburg--we don't keep it here) and there have never been runny poos because of it. We also give them a baby spinach leaf or two more frequently--spinach is a real powerhouse of a veggie, with tons of vitamins and other nutrients and the rats love it.

So, in a nutshell, it probably won't hurt your rat to have some lettuce, but that being said, it won't help them much, either. If you must give them a leafy green, try spinach.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:01 pm

I know the nutriotion info for Nutro is listed on their website--it would be best to compare that, rather than the ingredients. You can also compare it to the nutrition info for Harlan-Teklad lab blocks.

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:06 pm

Chicken Soup is a high quality food, but Rainbowrat is right, you must watch that protein content especially if it's being used in a mix, because many other things contain protein as well and too much can cause skin problems and can cause problems with the kidneys and liver. 14-18% is acceptable for a food being used in a mix, for a sole food I believe it's usually kept around 23% or so. It's generally accepted that the quality of the ingredients in Chicken Soup is better than Nutro, but this isn't enough to make it a good choice. I, personally, like Royal Canin's foods for dogs and cats, but they are all MUCH too high in protein to be acceptable foods to rats, other than an occasional kibble as a treat.

_________________

Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:19 am

I tried to get a better idea on exactly how much I should expect them to be eating at 4 months, I haven't found any difinitve answers... Thier food bowl measures out to about 2/3 c. When I feed them they usually dig thru the bowl and pick out the sunflower seeds, throwing everything outta the bowl to get to them. Making it harder for me to tell how much food they have in thier cage. Theres usually still some of the soynuts and the puffed wheat left in the bowl after they have concluded theres no more sunflower seeds and have eaten up everything else as well. I sometimes wait to fill the bowl again til they do eat some of the puffed wheat outta the bowl but I'm afraid if i always do that they might be hungry. I have lab blocks in the freezer, altho I'm not sure that they are the greatest. the first ingerdient is soybean meal, but the 2nd is corn. Also the protien content is 22%...

_________________
THE RATS
~~~~~WilloW~~~ Ace & Jack

~~~BonsaI~~~~~
~~~````````and Lola the bunny````````~~~

Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:22 am

I work in an organic food store, and I've never run across an organic rat food, ever. And I always am on the lookout. There's a local company that makes dog and cat food with organic ingredients (Sojourner Farms, www.sojos.com) and I've tried to talk them into making an organic rat food. I've even guaranteed them they'd be the only product on the market! They make a good product and I think it might be available online now. But I won't go so far as to make any claims that it's a complete diet for rats.

_________________
Scout of Manitou Mischief Rattery

Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:29 am

sorry for all the questions i am a new rat owner. I know rats like dog food. My mom went to the store and looked at the ingredents both for dog and cat food they were the same. So my mom bought the cat food because it was cheeper, after i specificly told her dog food. Is cat food good enough?

~~Thanks bunches~~

_________________
From,
Devon
&
Chester (my rat) Rat yawn

Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:49 pm

Just because the ingredients are the same, doesn't mean that they are in there in the same amounts. I also have a hard time believing that the ingredients were EXACTLY the same because cats and dogs have different dietary needs.

Cat and dog food should never be used as a base food, it is deficient in many nutrients that your rat needs. Some brands of dog food can be used in a mix such as Suebees, but even then buying the "cheaper" food is never recommended unless it's a brand that has good quality ingredients.

Very few brands of dog food is acceptable for rats, heck few of them are acceptable for dogs. The protein percentage is something you want to watch very closely, 14-18% range is acceptable. 14% is good for adult rats and 18% is good for growing rats or rats that expend alot of energy. Breeders tend to use around 18%.

Some acceptable to good brands of dog food are :
Nutro (Lite and Large Breed Weight Maintainance are the only ones that have protein under 20%)
Nature's Recipe (the vegetarian formula is 18%)
Wysong (I don't know the formulas)
Innova (I don't know the formulas)
Chicken Soup (I don't know the formulas)
Solid Gold (I don't know the formulas)
Royal Canin is a good brand but too high in protein

There are a few others, I'm sure someone will post them. Nutro is the cheapest of the "acceptable" brands. I am currently switching to the Nature's Recipe formula I cited and will let everyone know how it turns out.

I really recommend if you aren't going to use good lab blocks to consider Suebees diet, but remember ALL the ingredients must be used in proper amounts so your rat doesn't end up nutrient deficient. Some people skimp out on the Total, or the soynuts because of the cost and unless these items are replaced with something else that has the same nutrients, you can have serious problems. For example the Total and the soy nuts provide vitamin K and without it rats can have clotting problems which can be very serious since supplementing vitamin k can only be done through careful attention to diet or vet intervention because vitamin k injections are prescription only.

Hope this helps, please do post any questions you have, there are alot of different diets used here and I'm sure there is someone who has had experience with every single one out there.

Suebees's http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

_________________

Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:57 pm

BRR makes a good point: *Proportions* are more important than ingredients. Cats require more protein than dogs; too much protein in rat diets can lead to skin problems in rats. Just for comparisons, below are the nutritional analysis for Nutro Natural Lite Dog food and Nutro Natural Choice Weight Management for cats. You'll notice the cat food has more than twice the protein than the dog food:

Nutro Natural Lite Dog Food:
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (minimum) 14.00%
Crude Fat (minimum) 6.00%
Crude Fat (maximum) 8.50%
Crude Fiber (maximum) 6.50%
Moisture (maximum 10.00%
Linoleic Acid (minimum) 2.50%
Zinc (minimum) 250 mg/kg
Vitamin E (minimum) 100 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (minimum)* 40.0 mg/kg
Glucosamine (minimum)* 400 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate (minimum)* 300 mg/kg

Natural Choice Cat Food:
NATURAL CHOICE®
COMPLETE CARE
WEIGHT MANAGEMENT
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (minimum) 33.00%
Crude Fat (minimum) 10.00%
Crude Fat (maximum) 13.00%
Crude Fiber (maximum) 4.50%
Moisture (maximum) 10.00%
Ash (maximum) 7.00%
Linoleic Acid (minimum) 3.00%
Magnesium (maximum) 0.088%
Zinc (minimum) 225 mg/kg
Vitamin E (minimum) 250 IU/kg
Taurine (minimum) 0.18%
L- Carnitine (minimum)* 100 mg/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) (minimum)* 0.06%
Ascorbic Acid (minimum)* 50 mg/kg

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:31 pm

As BRR mentioned vitamin K, and I know that soynuts can be a pain to find, here is a little info on vitamin K.

http://www.nutristrategy.com/nutrition/vitamink.htm

Vitamin K is found in spinach, lettuce, kale, cabbage, cauliflower, wheat bran, organ meats, cereals, some fruits, meats, dairy products, eggs.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:23 pm

Oh just found a link on the USDA website for foods and their Vitamin K content.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR16-1/wtrank/16-1w430.pdf (Will need Acrobat Reader)

A cup of Soy milk has 7.35 micrograms of vitamin K in it. Cooked soybeans have 33.024 micrograms per cup. The RDA for humans is 65 or 80 micrograms (female and male respectively). The best source of vitamin K is green leafy veg, so kale, cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccoli etc.

Hope that helps too.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:52 am

hey everyone.

im comparaing the ingredients of two lab-block rat foods online, (kaytee and harlan), and i was wondering if anyone knows if there is a difference between "wheat middlings" and "ground wheat"?

it might just be different ways to say the same thing, but i was just curious if anyone knew anything about it.

thanks
regina

Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:52 am

Mine group gets wet dog food (around 10% protein) twice a week. Just stay with the better brands, so you aren't feeding a bunch of preservatives and you should be fine.

_________________

Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:09 pm

I always thought cat food would be too high in protein, but 8% isn't high at all. The only thing I'd watch out for is them stashing pieces of it in the cage - wet food will go off much faster than dry, so it's better if they eat it all at once.

_________________
P, Charlie and Snoopy

Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:58 am

Lab blocks would probably be the most balanced and nutritious, and they're good to start off with. If you get the babies used to those mixes with seeds & dried fruits and stuff, they'll probably be hesitant to start eating the blocks at first (because you know they pick those nutrient-rich pellets out

). As for which type, it's best to look at the label- if the first ingredient is corn/ground corn/etc, it's probably not the best choice-- too much corn isn't good for rats. I know Harlan Teklad uses soy products instead of corn, but it's incredibly hard to find. However, I believe even corn-based blocks would supply your ratties with more of the required nutrients than generic mixtures.
Also, it's always good to supplement the blocks with fresh fruits and veggies, and of course a few treats here and there.

Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:38 pm

My rats have never been fed the blocks, they get Suebee's food mix.
For dry fruit they get pineapple, papaya and banana. For fresh fruit they get apples, grapes and banana and for fresh veggies they get peas, carrots, cucumber, broccoli, tomato and so on. They also get cooked pasta, meat and so on. They eat almost everything I eat.

_________________
Boys: Pippin, Milo and Spaz
Girls: Rosie, Petunia, Mina, Mocha, Mojo, Amara, Bella, Bianca and Cocoa

: Bob, Lestat and Armand

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:21 am

I feed Harlan 2014 because from what I've read 8604 has too much protein for adults. (They need something like 14%) I just ordered a 33 lb bag of 2014 for $15.00 + $15.00 shipping (St. Louis to Louisville, KY) from here: http://www.tailspinzrattery.com/ALL_RAT_MART.html I've always just filled their bowl daily and let them free feed....they don't seem to over eat at all. I hope I've helped rather than add to the confusion.

_________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man"
-Mark Twain

Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:48 am

I usually keep Harlan 8604 in a bowl for my guys, so that they always have it available. Every night, I fill their bowl with Suebees mix (though I'm about to cut the Total flakes in half 'cause they almost never eat it) every night. They also get some kind of treat, whether it's peas, carrots, yogurt-covered raisins, MilkBones, a little bit of melted ice cream, peanuts, lettuce etc etc, when I come home from work. They looooove to see me coming!

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:16 pm

My bunch will not eat lab blocks. I've tried, but they throw them out of the cage. Evil or Very Mad

We use a variation of the suebee diet and some Nutro's natural lite dog food too.

I feed my ratties fresh fruit and veggies for dinner every night. Much of the same things as Little Willow indicated above. They also love Kale, canned kidney beans, cooked sweet potato (never give ratties uncooked beans, potatoes or skins). I generally try to give them one fruit, one carb and 2 or 3 veggies. Occasionally, I like to give them a bit of scrambled egg and bits of cooked chicken or turkey.

Remember not to give citrus (oranges, grapefruit etc) to males. They should NOT have citrus. Females can have a bit of orange.

_________________
Debbie and the gang of spoiled furries

Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:55 am

My rats are currently on a diet of 50% Kaytee Forti-Diet, 25% Cheerios, 15% fresh vegetables/fruits, and 10% woodpecker mix(sunflower seeds, almonds, cashews).

I doubt this is adequate, and I'd to change. The Forti-Diet is a pretty low quality lab block, corn based and containing unhealthy preservatives, and though I like what the Cheerios provide nutritionally, I doubt it provides enough of them (& the sugar content makes me nervous).

I'm located in Arlington Heights/Rolling Meadows (northwest suburbs of Chicago, IL)-- the only petstore within 30min of my home is Petco, and Forti-Diet is the best they offer in the way of rat food.

Ideally, I'd like to feed my babies a diet of Teklad Global 2014 with fresh vegs/fruits and some added grains, but the only places I can find it are online (theratshop & kim's ark rescue), and the shipping ends up being more than the food itself!

I'll settle for another high quality lab block if I can buy it locally, but that's something of a last resort. I've heard Mazuri

If you know of any places stock it located either very close or online with free shipping, I'd be very grateful (I'd be more than willing to do rat art in exchange, so PM if interested). I can't afford to pay a lot for shipping when there are cages and vet bills and toys to save for, and I'm sure you guys understand that.

I've also encountered a number of homemade mixes online, but I'm not sure which is best, and doubt any would be as good as Teklad+fresh food. They need more calcium, choline, iodine, chloride, vitamin K, folic acid, biotin, & vitamin b-12 than most homemade mixes include, not to mention less of other things. Vitamin pills and supplements, even for humans, are too ridiculously expensive to add, and they usually won't eat everything in the mix anyway.

I know my rats deserve the absolute best food for them. I need to know when they pass away that I made their lives heathy and fulfilling, and even moreso I want to keep that from happening for as long as possible. However, please tell me if you think I'm being too obsessive about this, and if those small deficiencies really wouldn't matter much. It'd certainly be a load off! LOL

EDIT:
As my girls are getting on in age, I'd also like to ask what adjustments, nutritionally (more/less protein?) and otherwise (ie. softer food), can be made for senior rats (18+ or 20+ months?).

Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:18 am

If you're in Chicago, there are a bunch of breeders & owners who feed Harlan/Teklad. Generally someone drives out to Madison to get a load, then distributes it to all who pre-ordered. It's just a matter of getting in touch with the right folks. Here's a list of breeders to contact, some in the Chicago area:

http://www.niro-usa.org/breeders.htm

If you can't get the lab blocks, then I'd recommend Suebee's mix: http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html

I've just started adding yogurt and Missing Link with glucosamine to my senior rats' diet and I like the results I'm seeing. They have the use of their back legs a little longer, coats are a little healthier, and the yogurt does wonders for their digestive systems. For my guys that have trouble sitting up and holding their food with their hands, I will give them little pieces of lab blocks.

_________________
Scout of Manitou Mischief Rattery

Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:19 am

Ok, I know chocolate is bad because it has a stiumulant in it (caffeine too). But what about coffee? Nothing I've read mentions coffee...and I can't keep Sophia away from it. She jumps onto the cup and starts drinking. I swat her away because I don't think it's good for her. This morning Steph burned her tongue on it. But wouldn't coffee be really bad for rats because it's such a strong stimulant?

Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:35 am

I think a sip here and there will do them no harm. Just like treats - everything in moderation.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:22 pm

Ditto would agree with Christy and so on there. I'm pretty certain that the whole "stimulant" thing in chocolate is just the caffeine. A little bit is ok for them, its not toxic like it is to cats and dogs. And I've seen people say that it can help coughs... well yes... in humans they've shown that dark chocolate can be as good at relieving coughs as cough medicine... but you need to each 200g per "dose" of dark chocolate to do so wink

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:14 am

If my fam eats beef + bean buritos for dinner, do you think a little peice of that would hurt adonis? like, if i give him a peice of the tortilla wrap with a little but of beens/meat on it, im sure he'd like it, but i dont wanna hurt him or anything, lemme know ^.^

Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:15 am

I think it would be fine and he would love it! Just remember, everything in moderation. wink

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:39 am

Yep, it was determined that Innova offers a slightly better quality of protein than Nutro, you'll find alot us fine-tune Suebees to our needs, I actually am currently using Nature's Recipe Veggie Formula Dog Food.

Mazuri is made by Purina, it is considered an "acceptable" food by most, but it'll be way cheaper to use Suebees, Mazuri is expensive unless you can bulk order it.

_________________

Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:47 pm

Mazuri is made mostly for breeding rats. But I see no problem with it, alot of people use it with great results.

I use a tweaked version of suebee's diet, lol. I use natural balance instead, as I don't use any dog/cat food with meat by products in it. And they use all human grade foods

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:22 pm

OK seeing as we are discussing dogfoods.... My rats get sick of the dog kibble after a while. They just won't eat it all anymore, or stash it in the igloo (if you're talking about my flatmate's rats). I don't know whether they are being fussy because they prefer the other bits (though I don't think so) or whether there is too much to the cereal (again, I don't think so, proportions are as they should be) or if they get sick of the same dog kibble after a month (can hardly blame them if they do) or if it starts to taste funny after a while. I would give them variety (if it meant they ate it) by having several bags of different flavours and varying it each day - its not a problem to keep it separate from the cereal mix. But also I have a suspicion that its the flavour changing after a couple of weeks of it being opened, because they eat more of it when I start a new batch than at the end. I try and keep it fresh but it seems that the dog kibble just.... changes flavour or something. Can anyone give me any suggestions? 2Kg bags are the minimum I can find, and I guess maybe I need more ratties to eat it all before they decide they've had enough. wink

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:31 pm

It might be best if you went straight to the source:
Mazuri nutrition info
Harlan-Teklad (click on "Rodent Diets" on the left sidebar
Nutro Natural Lite
Nature's Recipe Dog Adult

_________________
Victor, Bandit, and Sparrow's Sweeties: Neiko & Roo. Sparrow's Boys: Oliver, Arthur, and Rabskuttle. The fRAT Boys: Jim, Jack, and George.
Good night, Witter, Kono, Rat, Olie, Metro, Calle, Mr. Ratburn, Arwen, Leather, Ohana, Zoe, Misto, and Kanga.

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:14 pm

The other day, while I was shopping for "Rattie groceries" at Wal-Mart, I came across an "all-fruit" trail mix. Since Trader Joe's is currently not carrying dehydrated bananas (and I still have no dehydrator of my own), I bought the "all-fruit" trail mix. It has stuff like raisins, apples, papaya, pineapple, and other stuff in it. My guys seem to really like it. Is there anything there that anyone has found problem with?

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:38 pm

Hey guys... sorry I don't get time to post here much, I just came across this thread today.

Yep, I switched to Innova because it is a much better quality protein compared to Nutro. It costs a little more, but I think it's going to work out better. You can still use Nutro... I just have chosen not to.

I get my dried fruits from http://www.justtomatoes.com -- well, I get them at Lori's Natural Foods locally, but they also sell direct from that web site. Mr. Green

_________________
Suebee

Prisoner of Stalag 13 with Hogan, Newkirk, Klink and Schultz

Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:51 pm

With Nutro, try the Nutro Natural Choice Lite.

I've never heard of the food you're using... what's in it? It may or may not be better than dog food...

_________________
Suebee

Prisoner of Stalag 13 with Hogan, Newkirk, Klink and Schultz

Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:57 am

papya (I think) and pineapple are citrus, you might not want to let your boys have those since you have no way of knowing how it has been processed, you don't know if the oil has gotten on the other fruits either.

Just a FYI

I *personally* wouldn't chance it.

_________________
The Boys:
Enigma
Neptune
Zion
The Hamster: Mischief

And Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will!

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:28 am

I don't think Papaya or Pineapple are actually citrus fruits... They're just tropical fruits.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view.php/14110
http://www.thefruitpages.com/citrus.shtml

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:26 pm

ive been thinking about using the vegetarian formula of Avo-Derm dog food (put out by breeders choice) to use with my Suebee mix. anyone tried this/know anything about it? i know they use pretty good protein sources, but are the meat ingredients in the dog food really vital to the ratties? Confused

Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:07 pm

Ok so i work at a pet store so what do you think i should recomend to customers to get for their rats? weve got the Browns lab blocks Kaytee lab blocks, and sunseed lab block blus tropical carnival mouse/rat food (which is all seeds) and the hutch club we also have all the nutro stuff

Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:03 pm

Ugh... none of them, honestly. Sorry. Sad

_________________
Suebee

Prisoner of Stalag 13 with Hogan, Newkirk, Klink and Schultz

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:05 pm

What kinds of fresh food do your ratties get daily?

_________________
Love From,
Cassie
Lilly, Sadie, and Sophie (Dogs)

Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:17 pm

Lots of stuff. It depends on what I'm eating. Some of their favorite fresh fruits and veggies are carrots, celery, grapes, peas, and corn, and bell peppers (someone tell me if bell peppers are ok??) Other foods include bread, lean meats, cooked or uncooked noodles, cereal, dates, honey, cream cheese on bagels (a favorite), cottage cheese, ummmm, that's all I can think of right now. But pretty much they get a little of most things I have! They're spoiled little girls! Rat Cookie

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:35 pm

Mine eat carrots,celery,lettiuce,cucumber,grapes,bread,on top of their dried food they also eat a little cooked potato,pasta or rice,somtimes when we are eating it as a treat.

Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:11 pm

carrots & celery
blueberries, raspberries (HATE strawberries Rolling Eyes

), grapes, apples
corn (sparingly) & peas
kale, cilantro, broccoli, califlower
lima beans, garbanzo beans
oatmeal, Cheerios cereal, Total cereal (packed with vitamins)
seasoned croutons dipped in olive oil (olive oil is excellent for shiny coats)

Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:48 pm

I was going to ask this same question! So far I've given mine carrots, celery, apples, grapes, melon, peas, snap peas, green beans, squash, spinach leaves (unsuccessful) and mushrooms. Today I gave them banana and they all went crazy over it! I haven't given them much dairy foods or meats. They love grape nuts and cheerios, of course, and also the occasional pistacio nut in the shell. Oh, and they loved when I gave them a little bowl of chicken noodle soup minus most of the broth!

Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:45 am

Besides a dish of Suebee's mix that they have available 24/7, they each get a bowl of fresh food every night. It depends on what we're having for dinner or what's leftover in the fridge. It's never much of any one thing, 1/4 to 1 teaspoon of whatever is available, but they do get several things in their bowls. About 1/4 to 1/2 a cup of fresh food a night for each cage.

The usual stuff that's rotated through out the week:
potatoes (mashed, tater tots/fries, scalloped, au gratin...)
rice (cooked or un cooked)
pasta ( with sauces or plain)
eggs (sparingly~ scrambled, omelette, hard boiled)
soy "meats"
ocassional chicken/beef/turkey/bratwurst
a little cheese/cottage cheese/ or yogurt
breads/pita/sweet breads/pizza crusts....
all fruits (except oranges) fresh/dried/frozen...(apples, bannanas, grapes, cantelope, honey dew, watermelon are the favorites)
all veggies ( raw, cooked, mashed, boiled, baked,grilled...) (favs: fancy lettuces and raw spinach leaves, black olives, green beans, grape tomatoes, raw broccoli, carrots)
Grains and cereals (favs: oatmeal, cooked or raw, Bob's 10 grain hot cereal, Grape Nuts, Granola)
Nuts in the shells (walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, philiberts, chesnuts, pistachios, almonds)
Soups, stews & cassaroles

pretty much anything we eat, at least semi healthy they get in small amounts.

Their 6 favorite things in the world:

yogurt
watermelon
black olives
oatmeal
a porridge made out of Bob's 10 Grain Hot Cereal mix
salad greens

I'll make a meal for my family about 2-3x a week (my husband does most of the cooking) But since the first night I brought Haggis home 1 & 1/2 years ago I have cooked/made the ratties dinners every single night! LOL

_________________
Erika ~n~ The Clan

9 Girls ~ 13 Boys

**Playing at the Bridge ~ Lanigan, Tirna and Haggis ~ We miss you so much!**

Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:20 pm

Cereals (such as Cheerios), grapes, lettuce, many leftovers. . .there are a few things they shouldn't have. There's an article in the "General Rat Care" link to the left that ennumerates them, but otherwise just about anything goes (just keep junk food in moderation)

_________________
Sarah
Gus, Electra and Lillie (cats)
Artemisia Serendipity Timoune Paikea Eowyn (RIP) Nimue Chrysanthemum Mozart, Elizabeth
Ruby Sunrise, Angelina, Madeleine, Claudia, and the Angels

Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:31 pm

I give mine frozen veggies every night. They like them frozen, plus it keeps them fresher throughout the night if they don't eat them right away. They are always gone by morning though.

_________________
Christy
RP Admin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:18 pm

My rattie loves crackers, lettuce (romane, he doesn't like the green leaf stuff so much), carrots (one of his favorites), dried bannanas, peaches, mangos, sunflower seeds, bagels, penut butter (careful with this one), gouda cheese (although he's finally started to eat cheddar, which he used to refuse along with havarti, what can i say, he's a picky little buggar...), and well, just about anything I'm eating seems to interest him

Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:37 pm

Beware the berry mess! Egads, I give mine frozen berries (defrosted first) and the mess is unbelievable. doh

It looks like there was a massacre in the cage. Rats stained red, berry mush everywhere... (there's raspberries in the mix)

Once I finish up these frozen ones, I'll be going to fresh ones to hopefully minimize the clean up!!

_________________
Karinka
Stop by and see StellaLuna Rattery
www.stellalunarattery.com

Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:04 am

My rat, Franklin, loves apples, carrots, bread, Goldfish crackers, peanut butter, Cheerios... pretty much everything except lettuce and strawberries. Rats will eat pretty much anything. It's best to limit unhealthy foods, though.

Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:21 am

What about taurine? Don't cats need it from their diet, so its in catfood. Is the taurine good or bad for rats?

Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:45 am

I know the extra taurine is bad for dogs, which is why you shouldn't let them eat your cat's food. Not sure about rats though.

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Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:57 am

Thanks for the replies.

I found Kim's Ark before. I'm considering that.
I'd feed my cereal mixture as well, just for the variety.

I found this other site. http://www.tailspinzrattery.com/ALL_RAT_MART.html They sell #2014 and #2018 Are these acceptable alternatives to the #8604?

Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:39 pm

The 2014 is the low protein block, if you are going to mix the blocks into your Suebee's it's a fine choice, it just shouldn't be fed alone, it's too low in protein for most rats.

The 2018 is a fine choice if it's going to be the bulk of the diet, it's 18% protein and should be fine as a base.

_________________

Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:06 am

You can compare the two :

http://www.teklad.com/global/data/2018.htm
http://www.teklad.com/rodent/standard/8604.htm

The 8604 is generally considered more "complete" but if you are supplementing the diet with anything, the high protein content of the 8604 may be a problem and cause scabiness. Is supplementing with other foods I would go with the 2014 for males or the 2018 for females. The 8604 will work better for animals that it is pretty much all they get or animals that use up alot of fuel (breeding or nursing animals), it would probably be okay for hairless too, though I've had my hairless on 2014 and Suebees and had no problems before.

_________________

Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:36 am

Here is an article about rat feeding I recently wrote up, I'll be adding it to my website soon :

"Rats are not picky eaters; however, being owned by the furry little rodents, we have the responsibility of seeing that they are provided with proper nutrition. The easiest and most complete diet for rats is a high-quality lab block, such as Harlan Teklad. Harlan Teklad can be purchased online from Kim’s Ark at http://www.kimsarkrescue.org or you can check with a rattery or rescue in your area, many rattery/rescues sell blocks or do bulk orders and can add your order on. Check for a rattery/rescue near you at http://www.ratster.com.

When feeding Harlan Teklad, the 8604 formula is generally recommended. It is nutritionally complete for all life stages. The 2018 and 2014 formula are slightly lower in protein and are an excellent choice for those who feed a grain mix alongside the lab blocks, or for those who have protein sensitive or overweight rats.

If a high-quality lab block is not available, a homemade mix will still provide excellent nutrition for your rats. Suebee’s Mix, http://www.ratsrule.com/diet.html, and Debbie Ducommun’s diet, http://www.ratfanclub.org/diet.html, are both good options. Many ingredients can be purchased in bulk at low costs (try http://www.bulkfoods.com and http://www.justtomatoes.com ). Quality dry dog food is used as a base in Suebee’s homemade mix, be sure to select a brand with no by-products, BHA/BHT, or Ethoxyquin. Brands that are often recommended are Innova, Wellness, Chicken Soup, Wysong, Solid Gold, Eagle Pack and many people use Nutro with good results. When choosing your dry dog food, watch for protein contents that are in the range of 14-20% , too much protein in a rat’s diet can cause skin and kidney problems.

Rat mixes sold in pet and grocery stores are generally unhealthy and too high in fat and preservatives. If you absolutely have no choice but to feed from a pet store, I recommend Oxbow Regal Rat (http://www.ferretstore.com/ox-850.html). If this isn’t available a combination of equal parts Reggie Rat Food (http://www.russelrabbit.com ) and Mazuri Lab Blocks (http://www.mazuri.com ) will also work. This diet is not ideal, but if you are going to purchase from a pet store, it’s likely to be the healthiest thing you can get. I do not ever recommend Kaytee food mixes for any animal. They are not a balanced diet and are high in fillers and preservatives.

Generally, your rats can have any healthy food that you eat. Vegetables, fruits, and small amounts of meats can be offered. Canned dog food and fish are also popular. At least 20% of your rat’s diet should be fresh foods. Here is a list of foods that should not be fed to rats: http://www.ratpalace.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=189&page=1.

Remember that rats are omnivores and eat a wide variety of foods, try to provide a balanced diet and a bit of variety. Rats should also have food (and fresh water) available at all times, they have fast metabolisms and fasting can be stressful and unhealthy."

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Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:40 am

Are raw hide bones ok for rats? Notti found one of my dog Bossy's today and she sure enjoyed it. I thought about getting some for her and the other rats but wasn't sure if that would be good for them.

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:54 am

They aren't good for dogs, so I assume they wouldn't be good for rats. Our vet says they can cause intestinal problems in dogs (blockages, etc....).

Try Greenies instead. They break down in the body, unlike rawhide.

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:16 am

You can give rawhide as a treat to most dogs, just keep in mind that it's skin, which is very fatty. That's not good for most animals, but if they *love* them, they can be given in moderation (same thing with pig ears, btw).

Of course, some animals don't ever have the stomach for it, but you find that out pretty quick!

I don't know about rats, but I'd assume it's similar, except in a much smaller animal, the amount they can have will be very small.

_________________

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:17 am

There is a risk of intestinal blockage with rawhides, but it is low, they are generally pointless to feed (no nutritional benefit).

IME, the rats will nibble at rawhides, but generally not find them too tasty. Bones are a better way to go for both your rats and your dogs. Raw for the dog, raw and cooked are both fine for the rats.

_________________

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:24 am

Pigs' Ears are even worse than rawhides, so never buy these for ratties!

Pigs' Ears Not Recommended for Dogs
My-Dog.info > Dogs, Diet & Food

Pigs' ears have a high fat content and can lead to obesity. They can also cause stomach upset in some dogs. Because they are high in fat, they can irritate the pancreas, causing pancreatitis in susceptible dogs. This results in vomiting, lethargy, abdominal pain and diarrhea.

Pig's ear treats can also be a source of Salmonella bacteria. The federal government recently issued a warning that pig's ear dog treats from a number of manufacturers were contaminated with Salmonella bacteria, which can cause diarrhea, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and other serious long-term complications. Some pets that become infected may not show clinical signs.

These products can also be a risk to humans, according to the Health Canada warning. Transmission of the bacteria to humans can be via direct handling of contaminated product or handling of pets who may have become infected. For this reason, owners are advised to wash their hands thoroughly with warm water and soap after handling pig's ear treats. Better yet, consult your veterinarian about these products or avoid them altogether.

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:26 am

Becareful with Greenies, they have a very high protein content. I wouldn't recommend them for male rats with protein sensitivity. A lower-protein alternative to Greenies would be the edible nylabones, they even come in carrot flavor.

_________________
Yellow Flower Rattery
http://www.freewebs.com/yfrats/

Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:50 am

While I agree dried pig ears are not nutritious, I'd like to point out that the FDA states "salmonella is not harmful to dogs". Salmonella is rarely a problem in predatory animals because they have evolved to cope with it.

Personally I aim for the most possible nutrition, even in treats.

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Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:25 pm

	BadRattitudeRattery wrote:
	IME, the rats will nibble at rawhides, but generally not find them too tasty. Bones are a better way to go for both your rats and your dogs. Raw for the dog, raw and cooked are both fine for the rats.

I thought maybe raw hides would help with their teeth since they're always growing. (that's true isn't it? not just something i heard wrong?)
I guess bones would do the same but I've heard bones can splinter and cause problems. Is that true? :beethoven:

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:33 pm

You're thinking of chicken bones and no, cooked chicken bones are fine for rats. They kind of powder it the way they chew it, and they love them (well mine do!). Their teeth do keep on growing at a pretty phenomenal rate (well their incisors do) but usually any hard foods and just bruxing will keep their teeth down. They love rib bones as well, I believe wink

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:41 am

I have actually used a chocolate chip to try and help a rattie having terrible respiratory problems. I believe it can be a make shift bronchialtor. Of course with that, you have to be careful too as it can also be dangerous if too much is eaten.

I do agree with the others that in moderation, chocolate is ok. Unfortunately, I can also warn that giving a rattie chocolate can also create a MONSTER.

We have a 100% chocoholic at home. Venus will pitch a complete fit if she doesn't get her mini chocolate chip each night. I KNOW it's not good for her so often, but she seriously will riot and probably go through withdrawls without it. I am NOT kidding! She is like a little drug attic too, because she knows where they are kept (in a cubby in my headboard) and she tries her darndest to get to it each night. If I don't pay attention to what she's trying to do and get her, her "fix". She will start chewing on the pillow cases or comforter or just plain start pushing at me......true story.

"Hi, my name is Venus......and I"m a chocoholic" hyper

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Debbie and the gang of spoiled furries

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:44 am

Every very great now and then my ratties get a tiny bit of chocolatle. Ironically my boys like it more than my girls. If I eat chocolate chip cookies with my boys out they just hound me for some LOL

Oh, and about the chocolate with dogs, it's not good for them but it's not as bad as most people make it out to be, raisins are actually worse for dogs than chocolate is. One interesting tidbit I learned in school. LOL

_________________
Yellow Flower Rattery
http://www.freewebs.com/yfrats/

Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:55 pm

Feeding Bones to Dogs :
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/bones.html

Anyone interested in this topic should also check out : http://www.livejournal.com/community/rawdogs/

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Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:39 pm

I read on this site dried corn can cause cancer in rats. How about fresh corn, or frozen corn? My hamster loves corn on the cob and I'd love to try it with our baby rats.

They sure love their daily plate of fresh veggies right now. I can't believe what those little guys can put in their stomachs. Unreal.

Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:32 pm

Yep, I give fresh/frozen corn as treats. I also give freeze dried corn, which is different from conventional dried corn... no fungus.

I get it from http://www.justtomatoes.com

(well, I get it at a local natural foods store, but this is the web site of the supplier) Mr. Green

_________________
Suebee

Prisoner of Stalag 13 with Hogan, Newkirk, Klink and Schultz

Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:14 pm

Too much corn in the diet (and I mean WAY too much -- like, a diet of ONLY corn) can also lead to a buildup of nitrosamines in the stomach, which can cause cancer. Though I'm sure the amount of corn that needs to be consumed to get to that point is immense, I still just stick with fresh/frozen/freeze dried as a treat.

_________________
Suebee

Prisoner of Stalag 13 with Hogan, Newkirk, Klink and Schultz

Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:42 pm

Hey guys just a quickie.

Was looking at my local supermarket, and was going to do my usual of providing soya in other products as the beans are a pain in the backside to get.

Anywhoo - I found out they sell hempseed in the seed section. They're processed so you won't get high from them, but I saw a comparison between them and soya beans for the essential fatty acids and the like.

http://www.hempfood.com/hempfoods.html (see the bottom of the page for nutrients)

My question is, has anyone fed this to their rats, or have any advice or reason not to try it? Suebee, I'd be particularly keen to hear your advice, as its your diet I follow. wink

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:22 pm

Every few weeks I buy bags of frozen corn, peas and brocolli, mix it all together and split it between two one gallon zip-lok freezer bags. I usually thaw it out before it goes into the boys and girls bowls for breakfast and dinner. Along with that I mix; cut up grape tomatoes, frozen blue berries, fresh spinach and a little PurinaOne dog food. They also have bowl of Sue Bee's in the cages. Never a morsel left over between feedings!!! Surprisingly no one is overweight....well except for Curly Sue, my possum faced roan rex. She weighed in at 500 grams last week.

Ron Mr. Green

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Ron and Penny

The Girls..Jaws, Spidy, Curly Sue, Shadow, The Boys..Kramer and George.

Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:43 am

http://www.rrdi.go.kr/2000_WORK/Kor/Foodanalysis/pdf/%EC%A0%9C2%ED%8E%B8_1.pdf Had to try a couple of times to get it to download but has the vitamin K for many foods including hemp seeds.

According to this, boiled soybeans have 7 micrograms per 100 grams of beans, dried have 18 micrograms per 100 grams of beans. Dried Hemp seeds have 50 micrograms per 100 grams of seeds.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:02 pm

Does anyone know where I can get Innova senior dog food in the UK?

_________________
my rats: Bunny and Rex
missing: Ralph, Trevor, Mouse and Tariq
my cats: Meg, Minky and Molly

Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:25 pm

I don't know if we can... I think so but I've never seen it personally. You can get Nutro Lite though, which was the previously recommended one, and I've also used James Wellbeloved with good results... but I think the Nutro Lite is their favourite.

http://www.nutro.co.uk/dog/ has a link on it to find your nearest supplier.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:11 pm

Yes, most people here use Suebees (it actually makes a lot of food that stays good for a long time). You can buy lab blocks, which is what I see them eating in petstores actually. I don't feed them lab blocks, so some one who does can help you with that more. When I first got my girls I was feeding them Kaytee rat or small animal food, I don't remember. The problem is that they would pick out stuff they liked and wouldn't eat the other half. And the stuff they liked wasn't good for them. Dry corn is a problem (geez, I can't think this morning yet) for mold or ? reasons? Anyway, it's not good for them. Too many seeds and nuts in the diet can lead to too much protein which can lead to itching, as well as just plain dietary problems. But this is just the Kaytee stuff I had. My girls love Suebees so I didn't have to go out and look for something else.
You know, there has to be a commercial rat food that actually caters to rats, so maybe some one can help out with that one.
Also, don't forget that they can get people food too. Fresh fruits and veggies are some healthy carbs, and you can also feed them a little lean meat (baked or grilled chicken, maybe some lean beef). They can have pasta, potatoes (cooked), rice bread (white bread isnt so good for them, but then again it isn't so good for us either). Basically almost anything that's healthy for humans, is healthy for them. But remember they are much smaller than you and I, so just scale down portions.

Good luck getting your rats, I bet you're so excited!!

Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:56 pm

Commercial rat foods - I don't know what is available in the US. Over here the two more recommended ones are Reggie Rat (too many colours, and alfalfa pellets the rats tend to ignore) or Suparat (too seedy for my guys). Lab blocks are definitely the way to go if you can, but go for the Harland or Oxbow (?) blocks as not all of them are good (the kaytee ones sure aren't).

Hopefully more of the US residents can help out more with suggestions, but I would really suggest that you think about the Suebees - its cheaper than commercial food or lab blocks, and very nutritious, especially if you combine it with lab blocks, so you can ensure they get everything they need nutrition wise.

_________________
Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:41 pm

I think from the discussion we were having elsewhere, someone was paying about $5 a month on commercial foods (not lab blocks) for two rats - so $2.50 per rat per month. And I think from Christy and other US peeps usage of the Suebee's mix, it works out less than $2 per rat per month, plus is better for them. I know for mine its around equivalent of $2.50 to $3 per rat per month, including the dog food, but a) I buy them the organic stuff (which is more expensive), b) the dog food makes a big difference on the cost (up to 1/3 of the cost) and c) everything is generally more expensive in the UK than the US. You do have a bigger outlay because it will cost $15 or $20 to make up, but with 2 rats, it will last you months. Just store it somewhere airtight and it will be fine for them.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:15 pm

WOW, thanks for all the replies. I think i will go with Suebee's i just wanted to see if there was any that i could keep on hand just incase i ran out of Suebee's and didnt have time to run to the store or something... Could anyone tell me about how much they spend a month on Suebee's. Im trying to get all the expenses laid out to make sure i will make enough with my job to have money saved for vet emergencies and all.

_________________
Theta=3 year old Golden Lab
Iba=1year old Chocolate Lab
(`~Waiting to get my ratties~`)

Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:19 pm

Well lets see - if it costs, say $20 to make up a batch - that will probably last you, say, 4 months? Suebee reckons one batch lasts her 2 months with 4 rats, so should last you around twice as long for two rats. So that's max of $5 a month on food, probably less.

If you do run out, for a day or so, they will be more than happy with things you have in the house - pasta, rice, cereals (not too sugary!), bread, meats, veggies, fruit etc.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:48 am

Eggs: Are they bad or alright? i would imagine high in protein but for just like a treat? or something different? Just wondering....

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:50 am

Eggs are ok. They're high protein, like you said. A little won't hurt.

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:52 am

how bout like oatmeal. Lol. i am looking for different ideas to feed them. I feel so bad because they get the same ol' things over and over.

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:56 am

They can have just about anything except for the stuff in the "forbidded food list". Oatmeal should be fine. My girls love noodles cooked or uncooked, small pieces of sandwich meat, most veggies, all kinds of different bread, and tons of other stuff.

_________________
-Randi and the Rats: Notti, Mysty, Nilla, and Wafer

~My precious Angels: Nosi, Jumper, Margie, Francie, and Bart~ We miss you.

Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:19 pm

once every 2-3 weeks, i stick a whole uncracked hardboiled egg per cage and watch - my usually passive, laid back rats turn into savage monsters as they try to work out how to get into the shell. Once there is a crack, the egg lasts about 10mins before it's all gone, shell and all! As has already been said, it is high in protein, but every once in a while is fine for a treat.
There is a few egg pics on http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk/gallery.htm from my lot.

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Estelle
Alpha Centauri Stud, Somerset, UK
http://www.alphacentauri-rats.co.uk
http://www.ratz.co.uk

Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:33 am

are you sure it's ok for them to eat the shelltoo?

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:41 am

I've given mine a whole egg before but they didn't eat the shell. So you can shell it and give it to them that way if you would rather not have them trying to eat the shell... It may save you from cleaning up a bigger mess too (you need to remove any leftovers that haven't been eaten)!

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THE RATS
~~~~~WilloW~~~ Ace & Jack

~~~BonsaI~~~~~
~~~````````and Lola the bunny````````~~~

Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:37 am

no, they just eat them. But I gots another question (go figure)... what about milk? can rats have milk or other liquid besides water. Jucies? not like all the time but a treat?

_________________
FEAR is what will Kill you
DEATH is what you'll see
but soon all the good will come
and you can fly FREE..

Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:28 am

If you ABSOLUTELY have to use a commercial food, I usually recommend a equal mix of Reggie Rat and Mazuri lab blocks, but Suebees is better, and quality lab blocks, such as Harlan are even better still.

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Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:12 am

Oatmeal and eggs are good when fed as treats. The thing to be careful about not feeding too much oatmeal because too much oats can cause constipation.

Juices can be very high in sugar, on a rare occasion my rats get a little juicy juice but I usually mix it 50/50 with water, this way they get the taste but not as much of the sugar. Stay away from Orange juice and oranges/citrus fruits for male rats, it's not good for them.

_________________
Yellow Flower Rattery
http://www.freewebs.com/yfrats/

Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:46 am

I guess my guys are just pretty good with their food in bowls - they eat it all properly, very little, if any, gets wasted each day (from the Suebee's), it doesn't get stashed or chucked out, and the whole lot gets eaten.

On the other hand, the commercial products don't go down well at all - Suparat gets half left behind (too much small grains for their liking) and Reggie Rat gets only 75% max eaten, leaving behind the small grains and the alfalfa pellets, plus one of my boys has shown allergy symptoms from the artificial colours in it. P@H nuggets got stashed in the igloo in disgust or chucked out of the cage. Decent lab blocks are harder to purchase in the UK.

So I guess the price might sounds a lot, but it costs me less to make up the Suebee's than to buy the commercial foods where up to half of the mix gets wasted (as in, they will go hungry rather than eat it) and has in the past caused health problems for Charlie. wink

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:41 am

Okay, I guess i have very picky eaters. 6 of boys munch Suebee, but my Syd, and Sam of Siam will not touch it, also I have noticed that the subee seemed to give my boys looser stools that worried me so I mixed their regular in with the subee. Am I the only that has experianced that?

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Rest In Peace, My Lil Naked Man- Dobie, 2004 -Nov 11, 2005. My perfect acting English Gentleman, my heart still cries.
King George I- 2001-August 2004 My heart is always with you, my sweet departed friend

Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:00 am

Umm, I have never really tried Suebee's, but I know in most animals that a sudden change in diet will sometimes cause diarrhea (in humans included wink

) Perhaps mixing the Suebee's with their original food will help the diarrhea. If you want to switch them totally to Suebee's, assuming diarrhea improves, slowly lessen the amount of the original food that you mix in with the Suebee's over time until they are on straight Suebee's. That way the change will be gradual and maybe not upset their tummy's.

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Lydelia and the Critters
... and now they are five Mr. Green

Kitties: Miss Kitty, Catbot
Ratties: Eugenuis, Ralph and Elliott
RIP Oliver -- We love you and we'll miss you!!! Cry

Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:41 pm

My vet just told me I should not feed raisins to my rats. I couldn't find any info about it and was wondering if anyone else had heard this.

_________________
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a man"
-Mark Twain

Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:50 am

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/raisins.asp

_________________
Kate & the M.O.U.S.
If you saw a man drowning and you could either save him or photograph the event ... what kind of film would you use?
~ Anonymous

Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:17 pm

Hmmm Kate, I think you might have it there - so often people will see something is harmful to a dog or cat, and cross it over to all animals!

I've never seen anyone mention a problem with raisins. However my lot don't like raisins at all, and prefer freezedried berries or banana chips! Mr. Green

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:12 am

i was wanting to switch to suebees mix, but it doesnt look like i can. i printed off what i needed. i went to walmart, and food lion. i didnt find any puffed weat cereal unless its cheerios! i didnt see any puffed rice cereal other than rice crispis. i didnt find roasted unsalted soy nuts, and i dont know where to get them (i dont know of ANY health food stores near me) i found dry pasta but it wasnt flavored! the ones that was flavored had mostly origanal and just a few pieces of the tomato and spinach in there!! and i have no idea what muesli is but i guess i dont have to have it! SOOOOO is there any other homemade rat diets that any reccomends? i live in westren kentucky and i have no idea where to find a health food store.

Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:19 am

www.peapod.com delivers groceries to a lot of places! You could probalby order everything needed online for hardly any more than it would cost from a regular grocer.

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Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:32 am

On the puffed wheat...Ingredient: Whole Red Wheat
On the puffed rice...Ingredient: Whole Brown Rice

Nothing else, no sugar, no fats, no nothing...and my fur kids LOVE it in their mix.

Where are you located, if you don't mind me asking???

Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:23 am

I use the same stuff that SunWolf uses (I'm also in Ky) and it's fine. The pasta noodles don't have to be flavored either - mine happily eat them anyway. Soy nuts I can sometimes find at Wal-Mart or Kroger but not always. Sometimes they like to stick them in tricky, hard to find places. Rolling Eyes

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Christy
RP Admin
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Frodo, Zorro, Erzulie, Maeve, Clara, Molly & Emily