How can you tell if a rat is blind? And help for 'Cujo' rat

Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:47 am

I got another rat today. I felt so bad because when I got Neville and Meatball, I left one in the cage by itself. Sooo, I went back today and got him. His name is Merlin. All three rats have and are being treated for URIs.

Merlin keeps swaying from side to side... Why? Is he blind?

Also, Meatball keeps attacking him. I heard a horrible screaming coming from my room and I ran in there and Meatball had Merlin by his face, hanging him from the upper level. He's okay, just scared, but what the heck? He loves Neville and he knows Merlin. Just four days ago they shared a cage. I even did the whole thing of taking everything out of the cage and making it smell different. I even bathed the rats to make them smell the same (first and only time they'll be bathed). Merlin will just be sitting there and Meatball would come up and attack him. I have Merlin in his own cage for now, though still near Neville and Meatball's cage. The cage is plenty big for the three of them so that's not the issue. When they are feeling better, I'll try again and if that doesn't work, I'll try to neuter Meatball. If that doesn't work, I'll neuter Merlin and buy or adopt a girl to house with him. I'm not taking him back. Especially if he is blind because they'll put him to sleep probably...at least, that's what I'll tell my mom...lol

And Neville has retained testicles and is going to have to be neutered anyway.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:38 am

Welcome.

Don't worry about the swaying - rats have horrible eyesight, particularly pink or red eyed rats, and they do this to help them judge distances and so on. It's harmless and perfectly normal.

Re: the fighting - are they drawing any blood? I know that him hanging like that must have looked awful, and I can't blame you for panicking over it. After 4 days, usually that wouldn't be long enough with babies to cause ructions, but if they're all getting hormonal (between 3 and 6 months is when it starts to get worst) then perhaps that's it. I'd persist with it, do lots of play dates and take it slowly. Even though they were in the cage together at the store, there's no knowing how long they had been together before then. How often have you seen them fighting? And does Merlin seem scared of Meatball or nervous to be around him - or did they make up and snuggle, play etc afterwards?

Glad though that you know about neutering, if the problems do persist.

Hmm... are you sure that Neville is a boy? Retained testicles isn't that common, though they can pull them up if they are cold or frightened. Are they always out of sight? To be honest, I've heard of more cases of intersex (eg: hermaphrodite or non-determined gender) rats than I have of permanently retained testicles. Even if they are retained, we had a discussion about this recently and the incidence of testicular cancer in rats is very low - so often it's not seen as worth the surgery to remove retained testicles, as it will be a big abdominal surgery. Could you perhaps get photos of his/her rear end? Pictures of their front ends would be good too.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:19 pm

They never actually drew blood, though Merlin did get scraped up on his head and back a little bit... Nothing too too serious. They fought approx. every 2-5 minutes for 30 minutes. Everytime Merlin senses that Meatball is approaching, he tenses up. He tensed up every time Neville approached him too for a while, but soon was okay once he realized it was him. Even when Meatball is attacking him, all Merlin does is scream and cower down. Meatball just bites and pulls and in all otherways bullies him. At one point he started "doing" Merlin, but I'm sure, like in dogs, it's just dominance. I'm going to call my two exotic specialized vets today and get a quote for a neuter for Meatball. They live longer anyway, right?... as long as they don't get something else. Merlin is sooo sick. He even has blood coming out of his nose. Poor Merlin.

I'll have to post pics of Neville when I get home from work later... I'm late... All I know is I poke around or all of them and Neville was the only one I couldn't get anything to happen with.

Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:48 pm

OK that's almost certainly not blood - it's porphyrin. Rat tears and mucus are red from a substance called porphyrin that is secreted by a gland behind the eyes. It's normal. It's only a sign of a problem if they're secreting large amounts or they're not washing off more normal amounts. Why do you say Merlin is sick though? What is wrong with him, other than the porphyrin secretion? How much is there?

Spaying can increase lifespan (because mammary tumours are mostly stimulated to grow by female hormones, and are mainly a female problem), but it doesn't generally affect male rats the same way.

The humping is perfectly normal - like you say, often a dominance thing.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:49 am

My old rat was blind...she did the head swaying thing almost constantly...she was very scared of climbing..you could leave the cage open and she would never jump off. I had to keep her in a 1 level cage because she was too scared to go onto different levels anyway. She also seemed to use her tail as her eyes...always touching everything with it and if you lightly pulled it she would come running back. So unless your rat is doing all that..he's probably not blind

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~*Allie*~
Puppy: Pepper (my big suck) Kitty: Kitterz
Birdie:Mehico aka.Cheeky
Ratties: RIP Penny...i miss you pretty girl <333
Peaches n' Cream..2 bRATS
Jibroney!! --new rescue rat

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:19 am

There is enough porphyrin that it looks like he had a nosebleed. There's also a bit of yellowish crustiness there too, but not as much as red. He sneezes all the time... He woke me up several times last night sneezing. During the hour that I held him tonight, I counted 23 (though it might be 21 or 22, I kinda lost count) sneezes and two sneezing spells where he sneezed several times in a row. The second time he fell off of my shoulder...lol. I can also hear a rattling noise when he breathes. My vet decided to tell me today after I got them that there's been several rats in the store who had pneumonia and died within the past month, so that's fabulous. Luckily they're under the 2 week "warranty" thing so the petstore had to pay for their treatment.

Merlin is doing well now other than the sneezing and rattling chest. He does go up to the upper levels, though everytime I reach in for him, he tenses up and gives me the "I may bite...hard" look... I don't think he'd bite me (as long as he knows I'm there and I don't sneak up on him). I'm just paranoid and stereotype rats with red eyes because I was bitten really bad by a rat with red eyes last year. The doctor said he hit a nerve and I honestly couldn't feel my finger for a month. It was kinda cool because 1. the wound didn't hurt and 2. I could smack my finger really hard on something and I couldn't feel it...lol.

Anyway, sorry, I wander off in my own little world sometimes. Let me go get those pics for you guys.

Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:02 am

Aye - if they're poorly socialised rats, particularly those with pink or red eyes, might be more nervous. If their eyesight is particularly poor, you need to make sure that you announce yourself to him/her before you touch them so that they know you are there so that you don't startle them.

Merlin is on antibiotics now, is he? Poor little fella, he must be feeling rough as heck. Take a look back over some of the other posts on pneumonia and respiratory infections - there's lots of advice for making him more comfy, from medicine suggestions to steamy rooms and chocolate.

I hope he feels better soon - sadly, in the US, there are big problems with nasty contagious diseases - some of them, such as SDA, are really nasty and can wipe through a huge colony of rats very quickly with disastrous results. Because it's viral, antibiotics don't cure it, but they will, hopefully, prevent the rats developing bacterial infecitons on top of those. That's why quarantine is so important (there's a sticky on the subject) wherever possible - though not everyone is able to do so, and in your case, with just a couple of days between bringing them home from the same cage, it's something that you can usually skip.

Rat bites can be really nasty - they don't bite that often (unlike hamsters, imo) but when they do, they have powerful jaws and can do a lot of damage. It's why it's so important not to put your hands in bare to separate fighting rats either - because as you discovered, the bites can be nasty if they hit the wrong thing or get infected. Confused

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:40 am

My bite came from an abused rat. He now has a wonderful home with a lady who has had rats for more than 12 years and he is starting to come around, though still won't let them get him out of the cage after 6 months.

Hey does anyone feed Oxbow Regal Rat to their furkids? I was thinking about mixing that with Mazuri so if either one becomes unavailable, I'll have the other one and won't have to get them use to a new food. Is it just lab blocks? I can't find a picture of it online. The only thing that concerns me is that it says for adult rats and my kids aren't quite there yet. Aren't they considered adults at 8 months? I might try out Suebee's instead. Still trying to decide.

Here are the pics of Neville's privates. Sorry they aren't the greatest. My batteries were dying.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/precious_elf_legolas/IMG_4387.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/precious_elf_legolas/IMG_4386.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b30/precious_elf_legolas/IMG_4383.jpg

Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:55 am

I'm so happy... Merlin just took a treat from me and when I walked in the room, he climbed the cage to get up next to me. He's so flipping sweet. I have him in the bathroom with the hot shower on (not on him obviously) for steam. I found posts about steam (which I've done three times now), fruit juice, giving fluids with syringes, heating pads, and that's all I remember. He is eating okay, not as well as I'd like but not bad either and he's drinking well.

I keep forgetting, the medicine that they are on is Trimethoprim-Sulfa and they get .10 cc twice a day

I also read about ECHINACEA which is suppose to be an immunity booster. If it doesn't interfere with the medicine, would you recommend this? Where do I get it?

Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:58 pm

OK, maybe it's just me, but I'm not entirely certain that Neville is a boy - from those photos I'd be saying Neville was female and in that case, if she is potentially female, you don't want to have her in with the boys.... at least until you know for sure. Hopefully some of the others can give their opinions too.

Oxbow is fine to use. The main thing is that with very young rats you might want to add a little extra protein into their diet to help with growth, but you certainly don't need to wait until 8 months. Rats generally reach social maturity around 6 months and can continue growing until a year or so, but I think 3 months, in showing circles in the UK, is the cut off for baby rats vs adult rats.

Trimethoprim sulfa is ok - it won't work against some respiratory infections such as myco itself, so if it doesn't completely clear up, look at getting him some Baytril or Doxy (depending on his age).

Echinacea - you can get this from health food shops - where possible, go for the alcohol free kids tincture. And only use it a couple of weeks on, then a couple of weeks off - it seems to lose it's effectiveness if used constantly.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:32 am

I'm going to make an appt. to take Neville in to my "Emergency Exotic Vet" for a second opinion. This vet treats exotics primarily. I don't know if rats are considered exotics like guinea pigs and ferrets, but I'm including them in the list of animals they primarily treat.

So for extra protein, is that where the Nutro dog food comes in?

Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:34 am

By the way, my avatar is a picture of Meatball. Do they call that a blaze on his face? That's what caught my eye with him, and his personality finalized it.

Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:42 am

Aye - rats are usually considered exotics so good choice. Also, check out the rmca vet guide as well for recommended rat vets. We also have a list here.

http://www.rmca.org/Vets/
http://www.ratpalace.com/index.php?name=Sections&req=listarticles&secid=21

Hopefully they'll look him over good and decide if he needs something else - Baytril and/or doxy, depending on age and severity of illness, are good for broad spectrum coverage and include myco in them. I've seen reports of cephalexin or other cefa drugs (like naxcel and cefa drops) being good for some pneumonias - they're not going to kill off myco itself, but acute illness in young rats especially is almost always not caused by myco but by some secondary infection. The main thing is making sure they get appropriate doses - often those given are too small. A good vet will know though. If you want to be informed, then check out Baytril, doxy, cefadroxil and cephalexin under http://www.ratguide.com/meds/ under antimicrobial agents. If he's really poorly, then he might also get a decongestant, a steroid injection (such as pred or dexamethosome), lasix (a diuretic) etc.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes. Crossed Fingers

Edit: yes, white markings on the face are called a blaze. For protein, you want to add in things like scrambled egg, baby foods, soymilk, ensure, cooked meat and a little wet good quality dog food. You can also get ferretvite and nutrical - pastes to add vitamins and calories into their diet if they are not eating well.

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Andy & The Rats

~ Darwin ~ Maisie ~ Ella ~ Zak ~

~ Finn ~ Malachi ~ Azrael ~ Newton ~ Charlie ~

Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:14 am

Neville's manly bits are coming out. He's apparently just a late bloomer. Meatball is starting to put him in his place, though he isn't nearly as bad as he was with Merlin. So if he were a hemaphrodite, which I'm guessing he isn't, how would I know? Hemaphrodites can't get pregnant can they?

Introductions are to take place tomorrow in the baby pool in the living room.

nggc <----- That's Neville's typing. He likes to play on the keyboard. He typed a bad word once...lol.

Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:49 pm

Ok, so I started introductions today with just Meatball and Merlin. I initially put them in the ferret playpen together (the pool is downstairs behind ten feet of junk). Meatball attacked Merlin and drew blood this time. I had to stomp my foot on the ground twice to seperate them. So I changed tactics. I got the ferret playpen and folded it so that they're both in seperate 2 x 1' squares. That way, they're getting use to seeing one another but they can't get together for Merlin to get his butt kicked again. They're both leaning on each other through the bars and Meatball is pulling Merlin's hair out.

Oh, and I'm very P.O.ed. I took them all to a different vet today, just for a checkup on how everyone is doing and to ask about if Neville is a hermaphrodite. He isn't. In fact, LittleWillow was right unfortunately. Neville is Nevillia. So I'm screwed. It's crucial that Merlin and Meatball become friends before she gives birth because I'm going to have a hard enough time finding room for a bigger cage, let alone a bigger cage with Merlins smaller cage still in there.

I have a three level wire cage that I had planned on putting Nevy in when she gives birth, but I read that aquariums are better for babies because they can't fall and get hurt. Is that true?

Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:05 pm

oh man... I'm sorry to hear that your plans arent working out so well.

Hey.. you'll have cute babies....
Hope all works out fo ryou.. Now you get to figure out homes for them.

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